New Invasion Server - Suggestions

Check out Death Warrant's Invasion Server
Painless
Killer in Training
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

d2frob wrote:Hey, I mentioned this on vent and acy suggested i post it here. Regarding the new monsters I totally like them and have no qualms (sp?) about the damage they do but for people trying to get into the server its a bit demoralising that by wave 6 they can be pretty much instagibbed for a good few levels yet. My suggestion was to let certain monsters poison, freeze, null etc - add a bit more strategy to the waves but without ensuring a certain instagib, just a possible one.

A wave I had in mind earlier was the wave with raptors and goo titans, if the titans were to slow players down in a manner freezing does, the raptors could get closer, upping the difficulty for the high level players. It's up in the air i guess, to what monsters would be suitable doing what but i figured could make things a little more scary - imagine trying to unfreeze while being chased by monsters! eek! :bounce:
I'm in relative agreement here; adding the variable of hindering conditions such as freezing, poisoning, enflaming (sets you on fire) or knockback would add that bit of challenge EVERYONE is looking for. Imagine being set afire, nulled in place while having the life sucked out of you while healing the monsters (vampiric, anyone?)... hmm, I may be getting ahead of myself here.

In any event, the only thing I'd see hindering a venture such as enhancing monsters in this fashion is the difficulty of the coding, and the time the fine people of the DW server have to devote to it. It's certainly an interesting idea, and if the secrets were unlocked on how to change monsters in such a way... well, the possibilities would be near-limitless.

Also, I've seen the difficulty some people have on the server, and my only explanation is that the Damage Reduction Stat may be a bit high, especially for people such as Rob and myself (Medics). However, the majority of players on the DW server have learned to adapt and have fun and those who are having trouble can use the forum as a resource to get tips/hints on how to survive and look good while doing it!

Getting back to the topic of enhanced monsters, it seems that balancing monsters in such a way that increases the difficulty for higher level players without making it terribly impossible for lower level players is almost impossible in itself. If raptors can one-bite a level 70 or lower, adding a freezing property to the equation seems like a "fate-sealer" for lower levels. It would surely make higher levels sweat, but at the cost of lower levels sanity? If we were to lower the damage raptors and other monsters cause, it could make the gameplay too easy for the higher levels, as well. That's all probably too dramatic an example, but with all honesty, the only way to ensure a "global difficulty", if you will, is to drastically limit the stats that can be put into, say, damage reduction, or something that makes players near-invulnerable.

Well, those are my thoughts. To summarize, I AM in favor of "colorful" monsters (fire, poison, freezing, nulling, vampiric, knockback, and a slue of other types), but I'm unsure it'd solve the problem of unbalanced difficulty amongst differently-leveled and experienced players.
Dyslexics are teople poo.
d2frob
1337 Haxor
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:00 pm

Yeah I see where you're coming from. Do want to mention though, a full server is definately lacking the fun/challenge of an empty server (although vent is fun) would have thought some minor tweaking with the monster level could fix that - one lvl 25 hiding in a full server means total walkover!
Painless
Killer in Training
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

I believe I heard over vent that the "monster level" is calculated closer to the lower level players than the higher level ones. Not sure what to do about it; the difficulty is already set at Godlike!

The only time when it REALLY gets difficult (and fun for the higher level buggers) is smaller maps with little to no adrenaline/hiding spots, and ones that contain basic weapons that are spread apart instead of in lockers and such. Essentially, these are the maps that never get voted for... heh, go figure.
Dyslexics are teople poo.
DW_Hornet
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:00 am

Painless wrote:I believe I heard over vent that the "monster level" is calculated closer to the lower level players than the higher level ones. Not sure what to do about it; the difficulty is already set at Godlike!

The only time when it REALLY gets difficult (and fun for the higher level buggers) is smaller maps with little to no adrenaline/hiding spots, and ones that contain basic weapons that are spread apart instead of in lockers and such. Essentially, these are the maps that never get voted for... heh, go figure.
Godlike only determines accuracy and aggressiveness.

I've been begging for a reduction in damage reduction for awhile now. That would help immensely in making the server more difficult. However it gives even more importance to AMs. There seems to be no happy medium, I wouldn't have a problem setting up harder maps. However, we always have this stupid excuse, "OMG the noobs". That statement seems to be an overriding factor in most of our decisions.
Painless
Killer in Training
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

DW_Hornet wrote:Godlike only determines accuracy and aggressiveness.

I've been begging for a reduction in damage reduction for awhile now. That would help immensely in making the server more difficult. However it gives even more importance to AMs. There seems to be no happy medium, I wouldn't have a problem setting up harder maps. However, we always have this stupid excuse, "OMG the noobs". That statement seems to be an overriding factor in most of our decisions.
I'd be willing to take a hit in the Damage Reduction department as long as I could spend those oh-so-sweet stat points on something else! In terms of the so-called "noobs", most of the lower level players don't have insane Damage Reduction like a good number of the higher level players. Lowering the maximum Damage Reduction would only affect those who had already maxxed that stat/medic ability and give them a better chance at meeting their maker!

Lowering the max Damage Bonus might be another worth-while suggestion, as on some maps, the monsters don't even have time to land on the floor before they're dead and gibbed all over the place! I don't completely understand how the damage modifiers in UT RPG are calculated, but if the only things that can kill me are titan stones and Lucifer's wrath, something really should be done.

Mind you, I speak strictly for those with a lot of Damage Reduction/Bonus. Would there be another way to distribute points to give people the same survivability but make 'em work a bit harder to achieve it (i.e. more healing, more vampirism, more efficient globing)?

I guess what we should also consider is that some (a lot?) of people join the server just to take it easy and relax after a hard day. Could there possibly be a way to increase difficulty without making it frustrating and unenjoyable? I look forward to more helpful and constructive comments and ideas from the Monster Mash Community (tm).
Dyslexics are teople poo.
d2frob
1337 Haxor
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:00 pm

I'm with hornet, up the number of maps that are insanely difficult that essentially the 'team' needs to work towards being able to complete. Personally i'd like to see all the safe spots on 1on1 mixer blocked, then noobs (i'm talking about hte people who think they can do better by just hiding away from everything and refuse advice) are forced to see what teamwork does to your exp!

Oh and bring on this rumored minelayer monsters...bring the pain :cheers:
Bean
1337 Haxor
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Po-dunk Idaho

Don't mess around with the numbers anymore... it's fine how it is. I quit playing monsters to begin with because the numbers kept changing. Only thing to play around with is the monsters and their level of damage that they can inflict if anything. If people wouldn't keep playing the same lame ass maps, it would be more difficult. Maps have the potential to change the gameplay. Everyday I play the same boring maps because people aren't willing to try anything different. I wouldn't mind seeing the map rotation upped even more myself.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -- Bill Waterson in Calvin & Hobbes
DW_Hornet
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:00 am

Maybe we should setup a giant map overhaul of some sort. Basically take a look at the maps we rarely ever lose.

Bean is correct, we should avoid stat point changes as much as possible. It really ticks off the players that spend the most time here, and those are the ones we want to keep around. That being said I wouldn't be opposed to seeing stronger monsters on wave 11-14.
d2frob
1337 Haxor
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:00 pm

I would be happy to assist with any map overhaul if needs be.
DW_WailofSuicide
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1634
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am

I've got a map I'm working on that I'm hoping to have a semi-playable version of sometime tonight. I'm not exactly sure if it's going to be big enough to accommodate a full server, but I've got some expansions planned for the floorplan that should fix that in the next couple of versions.

I've also got a couple of other maps I want to look at as far as converting to Invasion maps by adding a few hidey holes and such. Hopefully that shouldn't take so long.
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