Vorpal sniper rifle... ehhh.

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DW_WailofSuicide
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DW_FrankyTheFly wrote:Thx for the info on vorp Wail, but i taugh vorpal +6 was 1% and +10 was 5% chance insted of 0% and 4% (at least thats what Druid said in their info..).
Well, it's possible I'm off there, but it's pretty negligible at +6 either way. 100 shots with a Sniper Rifle even with max WS takes like 2 minutes...
DW_FrankyTheFly wrote:
Scumsberg wrote:I'm a level 150 WM with 349 DR and 290 DB and Tony's Creations on wave 15 give 1 XP per regular shot with a +10 vorpal sniper rifle. Actually it gives 1 on the first shot, 2 on the second, 1 on the third, etc..
The amount of XP you get by Damaging (aka shooting) the monster will depend on the level of the monsters (yes mmonster have level).
Experience is determined along the lines of Damage Done / Total Monster Health as a fraction of Score Value (Monster Level may also adjust XP gained, I am not sure). This is one reason why, for example, Raptors don't seem to give that much XP - When you've got a monster that has like 50,000 HP and a score value of like 10, then you need to do 5000 damage to gain 1XP from it. *

* Note these aren't exact values or anything, just an example.
Scumsberg
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I don't know if these explanations are being used as excuses for the lack of XP, but I suspect vorpal snipe, even +10, will be used as often as AVRIL. That is to say, virtually never.
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DW_ACY
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Scumsberg wrote:I don't know if these explanations are being used as excuses for the lack of XP, but I suspect vorpal snipe, even +10, will be used as often as AVRIL. That is to say, virtually never.

Not excuses, simply put your level does not allow you to score exp with the normalized sniper now that it is not supper charged, when monster level has had a considerable jump.

Anything else could be an issue with the code or a by product of piecing together a finicky game that has always had it's little quarks.

You don't like the ideas presented for coming up with an answer to it then simple you code the fix!!!!

Hum not much of a reply to that, that's what I thought.

Now you brought up the question give the people that work on it time to fix it. One of the ways they get answers for fixes is to ask questions and find out what is or isn't happening. They are not giving excuses. You sir are being impatient.
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krneki
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"fix" it, with new updates
LOL
DW_FrankyTheFly
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Scumsberg wrote: don't know if these explanations are being used as excuses for the lack of XP, but I suspect vorpal snipe, even +10, will be used as often as AVRIL. That is to say, virtually never.
Wrong, any low level player like bellow 100 level that can't dance in the feild yet and prefer shooting from a distance will enjoy those weapons (lg, sniper and AMRIL). I did enjoy it myself when i was low level on server 1 or 2 and i never complain about them.
Scumsberg wrote:I'm a level 150 WM with 349 DR and 290 DB
You just prove my point here. You are a high level!? Then just do like every high level AM or WM in the MM server..... JUST USE A DAMN VORPAL SHOCK and leave the vorpal sniper and lg for the low level.
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juice
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DW_FrankyTheFly wrote: Wrong, any low level player like bellow 100 level that can't dance in the feild yet and prefer shooting from a distance will enjoy those weapons (lg, sniper and AMRIL). I did enjoy it myself when i was low level on server 1 or 2 and i never complain about them.
AVRIL isn't effective for low levels since weapon speed and damage bonus will result in a low rate of damage. more effective to use weapons such as shock rifle even at these levels. now you might be thinking about this idealistically, but realistically speaking there aren't many low levels who use these weapons because of their inefficiencies compared to something like mine launcher, shock rifle, and mp5. if you think about it, the reasons people use generally the same weapons is because they work. the same reason why people don't use a grenade launcher because its not as effective.
You just prove my point here. You are a high level!? Then just do like every high level AM or WM in the MM server..... JUST USE A DAMN VORPAL SHOCK and leave the vorpal sniper and lg for the low level.
i just don't understand the logic of this. you're basically saying "i don't want this weapon to be as useful (given user skill and character) as this one. Sniper sucks at your level so use a shock." well, shock is much easier to use than a sniper, for example, so why should someone who's good at a sniper be relegated to using a shock? why not just up the damage a little bit so that exp gain remains roughly similar (or a little less perhaps? any damage increase would be appreciated) so that some weapons aren't avoided?

is this really such a bad idea? i would think we should reward people who go out of the box to use a more difficult weapon than is the norm on the field, not punish people for not using the fab five of weapons (mp5/link/shock/flak/mine launcher). i guess i just don't really understand the logic behind not wanting to do this. wouldn't it be more fun if you'd have a larger armitoire of weapons that you could use without feeling guilty about not making as much exp?

of course, granted, there are weapons because of how they work they'll ALWAYS be more effective. Link Gun is a great example of this. its damage is incomparable due to its niche. since its a projectile, it requires more aim, and thus the damage is rewarded in being accurate with it. Also, ammo consumption is taken into account and rewarded for exp as well. what some of us are trying to point out is merely that we find certain weapons that don't have this kind of reward based on it.

for example, it'd be nice to see rocket launcher do a bit more damage. i rarely see it used since most other weapons can easily dwarf its damage potential (rate of fire and projectile speed) unless someone gets it with an energy mod or humors the weapon with that nice inf mod. i guess what im asking is would a minor damage increase be out of the question? it seems like certain weapons are balanced according to its strengths and weaknesses, while others just end up not cutting it when comparing it to the "Fab 5" of weapons that everyone has on hand.

EDIT: also (as frankythefly put it) i would be perfectly willing to learn some ut2k4 modding (enough to help with minor changes and submit them as such) if it's needed/would be accepted. i have a job with a block of 2-3 hours of nothing to do (i have a shitty laptop), and i've had coding experience in the past.
Scumsberg
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Whoa, sure is a lot of hostility from DW members in this thread. It looks like it's going south just like the one we posted months back.

For the record I agree with juice's logic that weapons should have a more balanced XP per minute ratio. I find it ridiculous that some of my weapons are apparently relegated to "newbie only" instead of making all weapons balance themselves appropriately among all levels. It seems like a completely arbitrary nerf of my weapon variety and choice in gameplay, if this really is the case.

Regardless, despite the logic I see in our argument it seems pointless to continue the debate. If the modders feel some weapons should never be used, so be it.
DW_Ant
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Scumsberg wrote:Whoa, sure is a lot of hostility from DW members in this thread. It looks like it's going south just like the one we posted months back.
Yes, lets please keep this discussion in a civilized manner. There's no need to use all caps. Also please be a bit delicate on your word choice. Keep in mind that any word's meaning could be stretched (appearing to be on the offensive side).

Well, here's my two pennies...
I prefer folks to diversify their use the arsenal provided. I believe that the vorpals could be turned up a bit, but there should be a cap (in case adren masters are using DMM). I think this is already addressed though.
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DW_WailofSuicide
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juice wrote: i just don't understand the logic of this. you're basically saying "i don't want this weapon to be as useful (given user skill and character) as this one. Sniper sucks at your level so use a shock." well, shock is much easier to use than a sniper, for example, so why should someone who's good at a sniper be relegated to using a shock? why not just up the damage a little bit so that exp gain remains roughly similar (or a little less perhaps? any damage increase would be appreciated) so that some weapons aren't avoided?

is this really such a bad idea? i would think we should reward people who go out of the box to use a more difficult weapon than is the norm on the field, not punish people for not using the fab five of weapons (mp5/link/shock/flak/mine launcher). i guess i just don't really understand the logic behind not wanting to do this. wouldn't it be more fun if you'd have a larger armitoire of weapons that you could use without feeling guilty about not making as much exp?
It's not a bad idea and I agree with the general principle of trying to encourage (or at least, allow without the feeling of gratuitous penalty) the use of some of the other weapons in the UT arsenal. But not everything can be compared and boiled down to something simple. You also have to consider context as well.

Just as an example, basically the Lightning Gun is a weak weapon in Monster Mash. Its DPS is low and it doesn't do anything the Shock Rifle can do except (a) On certain monsters, headshot them or (b) Zoom. (a) Is only really a novelty, and (b) is not that useful except in fringe situations.
On the other hand, if you look at TAM/Freon gametypes, I would wager the Lightning gun is one of the most used weapons. Sure, the Shock Rifle is an overall better weapon, but the Lightning Gun is a strong and valued weapon. Lightning Gun is certainly a more common choice than the Bio Rifle. Yet even the lowly Bio Rifle is not that infrequently used in TAM/Freon simply because it can dish out enough spike + splash damage to kill several people in the right situation. It's deadly, and frankly, kind of borderline OP in Freon because of how it interacts with frozen bodies.
In other words, just because a weapon's functionality doesn't mesh all that well with the way that Monster Mash tends to be played for high level players (e.g. Scoring high, rather than surviving) doesn't mean it needs to be dramatically changed or beefed up.
Seven_of_69
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The ideal magic context on top of the ideal weapon context is part of what makes MM infinitely unique. LG seems useless? Yeah, a lot of the time it is. But make it vorpal and it's good. Make it knock-back and you can push monsters a long way away or even over the edge. Make it healing or inf and yawn, it's pretty boring.

Regardless of the magic type, an LG could almost never be a primary weapon for MM but it has a useful role as a secondary support weapon. The same goes for sniper, bio, Amril, and shield gun.

I guess it'd be nice to have more XP balance amongst all the weapons but it's not a show stopper. Anyway my style is to use the most effective weapon possible to get the job done. Usually that's the one that does the most damage regardless of the XP it gives.
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