Vorp shock +22 : how to prevent abuse without losing it

[-1PARA-Queenie]

Why just cause a weapon works well does it always have to be "abuse of a weapon" seriously so what a weapon works well and keeps, in this case, an AM alive when the monster level is high and everyone gets to the next wave cause someone spammed a vorp +22. Since the DMM has been back i've not seen anyone doing the so called "abuse" of it at all and im nosey n tend to look at everyones stats to see who is using what weapons while im dead. "at least that's what I've heard" how can you base asking for such a change on just that not on something you have seen or done yourself? If it was really that much of a problem then im sure the people who have actually seen the apparent "abuse" of the +22 vorp would be on here demanding change. The vorpal was already nerfed once, cant we just leave it alone already and as Acy said sort the maps out n just leave the weapons alone for once...... blah dejavu AGAIN..... :banghead: :shock: :shock:

:queen:

[DW_WailofSuicide]

The vorpal was already nerfed once

Since when?

[packinsheet]

maybe fanky didn't really hear it from others, because his introduction stated he noticed it (based on the first post)

there is a big difference between "i noticed" and "i heard". one is you're there and the other one is just word of mouth no facts to prove it (well, like the "expelled by franky" thread, you could have at least got some screenies from the chat log to prove your point)

also, franky may i ask these questions?
1. if something vorps, is it automatically +22?
2. are you really sure it is an AM using the vorp? did u spec all players? how can u be sure that an AM is using DMM?
3. DMM needs adren, how can that AM make other weapons if he's been abusing from wave2? vorpal shock isn't really needed at wave 2 since other weapons basically suffice like the mp5. the chance for an AM to get all required weapons from a weapon locker or roll them before wave 2 is very very slim.
4. many players using vorpal at the same time can sound like a player is using vorpal+22. (example, one is shield vorping a titan, another is bio-rifle vorping another, another is a lightning vorp from afar, then the shock, etc.)
5. how often do these AM vorp from wave2?
6. how are you sure that this is not based on your opinion only?

[JulianKingOfNothing]

@packinsheet:

I was there for a while when Franky was discussing the vorpal shock +22 issue with another high player whom I'll call N..

But N. had a good point, it's overpowered.
Since I got kinda tired today, I won't type a long post, but let you guys handle the rest.

[DW_FrankyTheFly]

if something vorps, is it automatically +22?

No, normal vorpal WM and MM could use go to +10, witch correspond to 5% chance of insta-kill. +22 vorpal can only be acheive by an AM that is doubling a +11 (6% chance of insta kill) with is DMM (double magic modifier). A +22 correspond to 17% chance of insta-kill.

are you really sure it is an AM using the vorp? did u spec all players? how can u be sure that an AM is using DMM?

After 4 years of experience i know exactly the diff between vorp +11 and vorp +22 by listening to the boom sound time interval.

DMM needs adren, how can that AM make other weapons if he's been abusing from wave2? vorpal shock isn't really needed at wave 2 since other weapons basically suffice like the mp5. the chance for an AM to get all required weapons from a weapon locker or roll them before wave 2 is very very slim.

DMM consume adren at the same speed as the triple damage do. A high level AM with 700 adren have no trouble using it, if he constantly kill his adrenaline surge skill give him a huge amount of adren. Plus his energy leach is super efficient with a +220% giving by a +22 vorp, giving him even more adren (same as an energy +2 or +3).

many players using vorpal at the same time can sound like a player is using vorpal+22

agree, but I did get feedback from some players that this is not the case in this situation.

how often do these AM vorp from wave2

Hard to tell, like I said that's what i've heard. Got to admit wave 2 is not easy to use the vorp+22 because the monsters are pretty weak and do not give alot of adren but I did notice players abusing vorp shock +22 from wave 8 to 15.

how are you sure that this is not based on your opinion only?

100% sure

[DW_Ant]

Franky beat me to this post, but I'm still posting anyways. My responses in green.

1. if something vorps, is it automatically +22?

no.

2. are you really sure it is an AM using the vorp? did u spec all players? how can u be sure that an AM is using DMM?

When the rifle vorps every other shot.

3. DMM needs adren, how can that AM make other weapons if he's been abusing from wave2? vorpal shock isn't really needed at wave 2 since other weapons basically suffice like the mp5. the chance for an AM to get all required weapons from a weapon locker or roll them before wave 2 is very very slim.

I don't see this as a problem to people that use this from wave 2 since you can kill nearly all monsters in one shot with the sniper rifle. However I do see a problem when my level 70 adren master can easily globe with the vorpal shock rofle through any wave until my ammo runs out.

4. many players using vorpal at the same time can sound like a player is using vorpal+22. (example, one is shield vorping a titan, another is bio-rifle vorping another, another is a lightning vorp from afar, then the shock, etc.)

It's often the shock. You can definitely tell when there's a huge difference in the scoreboard. Then check the player's personal stats, and see what weapon he's or she's using.

5. how often do these AM vorp from wave2?

They begin the moment they generate the vorpal, or when they see it necessary to pull out the vorpal when the big monsters come.

6. how are you sure that this is not based on your opinion only?

You can go by experiences from what people tell you, or research the stats through the code, yourself. You can chose if my responses are legit or not. I won't force you in what you believe, but since you did ask, I provided an answer.

I do have a qustion though...
Who are you? I don't recall coming across 'Packinsheet' on the servers before.

[packinsheet]

forget the tedious itsy-bitsy-tweaking balancing act stuff, its never going to truly balance the server anyway, just remove the DMM

[DW_FrankyTheFly]

forget the tedious itsy-bitsy-tweaking balancing act stuff, its never going to truly balance the server anyway, just remove the DMM

LOL! Nah we don't want to take the DMM away. The purpose of this thread is to find a solution to prevent abuse without any loss. The best way, in my opinion, is to find a way to dynamicly adjust vorpal insta kill chances based on the monster level. Knowing the monster level is itself auto-adjusted based on the lowest lvl player alive, I think it may be possible to code this, thus making everyonne happy.

[Nelsoncarmo26]

So let me get this right...
You want to make the Vorpal ability easier for higher level players, and harder for low level players?!
What's the sense in that?

Why don't we make high level players invincible that we're at it?

So, to hell with low level players...

NO, NO, NO... It should be the other way around, low level players should get a higher chance of vorping than high level players.

Besides, this whole Vorp concept is a failure to be honest in my oppinion.
I had a Vorpal Shock +10 the other day, and this is no lie... it took me aprx 100 direct hits to get a Vorpal Shot.
So I don't think lowering the chance of a Vorp is the answer here.

However, I do agree with you that the percentage should be lowered for some specific players, but for High level players, not for low level players like you said.

Otherwize, the stronger get stronger, and the weaker... well, they will never play on this server again.

I have seen the server empty at times when high level players are on, and as soon as they leave, all the players come in then, and when high level players come in, most players leave.
I've seen it happen so many times.

Why do you think that is?

Because when really high level players are on, no one else can get frags and therefore can't level up.
You just sit there watching as the 200+ levels eat up all the points, and you just have to stare in boredom.

That is what should be taken into consideration.

You should take this opportunity to promote other weapons that players allways throw away and are never used, which is the case of Bio Rifle, Rocket Launcher, etc...
You should make any magic for those weapons only; to encourage usage, for instants:

Rocket of Wide spread Ruin - which will create a wider, more powerfull explosion.
Acid Bio - Will keep doing damage for a short period of time after impact.
Flame Grenades - Will set monsters on fire and keep doing damage for a period of time.
Armour Piercing MiniGun - Stronger bullets for Minigun.
Amril of Quick Reload - The Amril is way to slow, and it's hardly ever used.

I have a lot more ideas for weapons...

[JulianKingOfNothing]

@nelson: you're right besides the stronger get ...
I think if it's going to be updated, it should be the same for everyone. A low level WM with full DB hiding and shooting a vorp is just the same as letting a high level running outside.
Believe me I've tried it on my low level WM, and it was getting more vorps than me running outside with my MM or AM.