That's the last map for this server...

[Nelsoncarmo26]

I see what you mean Ant, when you said that we will never be able to make a map no where near perfect.

There will always be debates about how maps should be made, and what is needed and what is not.
There will always be differences of oppinion, and everyone thinks differentely.

New players demand safe spots with lots of adrenaline, whlist Pros demand hard maps with more terrain to runabout... as for me, I'm kind of in the middle, just like you guys at DW.

First, because I can see both points of view, and second because I like to make maps.
Every map that I make, I always keep in mind the demands of both sides of players... while trying to make a map that is neat in visuals and satisfying to the eye, but that wont compromise on gameplay and fun.

This map making and hosting thing is harder than it looks...

One thing though Ant, I played Akbal aprx. 7-8 ish times, and only won once... and most of the time Franky was playing too.
But enough of Akbal... don't want to rule out all I just stated.

[Blood Asp]

AkBal is fine, we had that map on earlier and the average monster level was 200, and the lowest level player was a bit of an idiot and always got himself killed, however with some good strategy we got to wave 15 before we lost it, yes we lost, but we put out one hell of a fight.. And about Train Station, noobs ALWAYS vote that map when its available, and about 80% of the time it is always the one that wins because of the many noobs who play.

Also seriously what kind of 2 year old idiot would make DM-TrainStation, i can tell you that all it is, is simply a big gay square, a couple of stolen Brushes *the trains and tracks* and a couple of static meshes, Why dont we just build a huge cube with a 99.9% safe room and call it a awesome map for noobs?

i mean jeez that map pisses me off soo much i just cannot stand to play it, i used to be a map tester for UT99 clan, and i will write exactly the words i would say to the designer

"Playing this map its a mess, i could build this in practically 10 minuites, though maps dont always need to be made in 10 days because i admit nobody can instantly be a pro, however you should take time to work on your maps visual appeal and gameplay appeal, a map which you can be completely safe in is no fun, there should always be danger, and if aliens truly were to invade do you think it would be in a place where humans can be completely safe from you? try to imaging, You are an alien, and i am a human, i am walking through a ancient temple with almost no hiding spots, and then now, i am walking through a place where i am completely safe to any damage, Where would you attack?

Now if i was to be an extremist tester of this map i would probably say this: Why the hell do you bother to show this? if this was a design as you and i were an architect then i would throw this shit in the bin and tell you to get the **** out of my office, Start again, and design it more in mind of what would be a mix between good gameplay and good graphical quality, Whats the point having a game that can handle good graphics, but not expose it as much as the game will handle?

With all respect there are many mappers around who i am sure would be happy to help you, you can even contact me at EA_Elemental@hotmail.co.uk and i can give you any help you need to make a design better. But other than that this map is a complete mess, i cant even give it 1/10 because most of this you used is stolen.

Thanks EA_Elemental"

This would be a standard review i would give to this map, however i can assure you, compared to another map tester i know, that is greatly respectful to this mapper. if you were to talk to a guy called XYZ_8000 a map reviewer of an old place called NaliCity, he would raise hell on this map, he would complain the lighting sux, textures sux, static mesh sux, brushes sux, mapper sux, Pretty much he would say absolutely everything about this map was stupid and would raise hell about it.

Thats a thing for you to think about, look around for reviews on maps, also before you put maps on the server maybe you should put pictures, and a download of the map on the site for people to test and review, that way everyone has a say, maybe even a poll for people to say whether they think it should go on the server or not.

Now i know you do something like this but only between DW Members, i know your reasoning for this,but you must understand that there are not many DW Members play on this server compared to different players who are not part of DW, as far as i can tell most DW Members play COD and GW, i have seen about 6 DW People on UT2004, and about 14 people on GW and COD, so i think maybe the people who play should also have a say, otherwise people will start thinking that you dont care about them if they are not DW.

I Can understand your hesitations to this but surely this is a community, not a commitee.

Hopefully you will have a good hard think over what has been said, it is your choice however, so we will abide by whatever your choice will be.

Thanks
Renegade

[Dynadin]

Why the hell is DM-TrainStation still on the server then? that map is absolutely TERRIBLE, only the noobs who want to camp play it, its not balanced gameplay since noobs just camp up the top with the mine layer doing practically nothing.

I'm just saying.
It isnt a good map.

Ah these kinds of statements reminds me of an older topic related to Spam Vikings.
To save the trouble from reenacting all the arguments, I'll just post the link. You can read it, then comprehend why maps like TrainStation are still on.
Challenge for Map Deletion

By the way, reread this please.

For those that remain, they are either on borrowed time or they get rotated out of play periodically in an effort to provide some variety.

On the other Hand DM-Akbal should also be considered taken out, as it's way to hard, and only 1/10 times that map is won... or even barely people survive wave 12 for that matter.

I was judged by various people here, stating my DM-Underworld was way to difficult, so howcome they don't complain about DM-Akbal?

You must be playing with the wrong shift. I witness Akbal being beaten 75% of the time.

I decided to quote Ant as he picked out the points I did before I even got to his post. First. There is nothing wrong with trainstation. So what if noobs get a chance once in a while to do nothing else other than level their characters. It is one of the maps where I got some levels on a new AM that would have died on every round of other maps. If you find it boring don't go up top. Besides, it is far from safe. On the last four times I have played the map we lost due to seekers flying into the top bit and slaughtering everyone.

As for Akbal. Yes it is damned hard. I have never won it, ever. Yet with the right people even not winning can be fun. Sometimes it is good to fight to the bitter end, not to win, but to see how long you can survive, just like AbsoluteHell.

[DW_Ant]

Thats a thing for you to think about, look around for reviews on maps, also before you put maps on the server maybe you should put pictures, and a download of the map on the site for people to test and review, that way everyone has a say, maybe even a poll for people to say whether they think it should go on the server or not.

I thought we already do this. Mappers created a topic for their map, and folks (not just DWs) sent replies and reviews of their maps.
Time Travel is at 5 pages of discussion.
Apok@lyp$e sends previews of his current development plus to verify on the scaling on maps.
And we are in an open channel (not password protected) when we're discussing maps over vent for live feedback. You've witnessed this before.

[Nelsoncarmo26]

i have seen about 6 DW People on UT2004, and about 14 people on GW and COD, so i think maybe the people who play should also have a say, otherwise people will start thinking that you dont care about them if they are not DW.

I agree, I think DW members should be the ones who actually play on DW.

As for Akbal. Yes it is damned hard. I have never won it, ever. Yet with the right people even not winning can be fun. Sometimes it is good to fight to the bitter end, not to win, but to see how long you can survive, just like AbsoluteHell.

I also agree with you.
However I as much as anybody else would be lying if we would say: Winning it's not all.
Offcourse we all want to win the map.
However, like I said... I do agree with you, and it doesn't matter if we don't win as long as we are having fun with the right people.

But who are the right people?

>To me, the right people are those who help eachother, for isntance medics healing everybody, not just them selves; Adrenaline masters making weapons for people who need most, not make all weapons infinite for them selves, and then there's a poor noob with some tiny little basic mp5 with just a few shots left.

>People who actually take the time to answer questions... which brings me to another issue, which is the server should have more tutorials in how to use the RPG system... correct me if I'm wrong.

>People who are level 200 and help noobs instead of feeling the need to follow noobs around to steal their kills and take all the xp, just because they want to be top of the score board.

So you see that depends of what type of "Right people" you are refering to.

It has been stated before many times, that invasion is a team based game type, but there are certain players who are selfish and seem to care more about their personal score than to enjoy the game and fight together as a team to the bitter end, as your-self has stated.

As far as maps are concerned, I agree with Renegade, and maps should be tested by DW members who actually play on the server, and tested by players who play on the server regularly, like me, Dynadin, Renegade, Anonymouse, and many others.

[Blood Asp]

I Will quote something franky the fly said in game *obviously wont be a perfect quote but as i can remember it*

"DW Members have already spoken about this, but the DW Members made their decision on saying vorpal should stay as this *the new version that was made*" that was something about Vorpal weapon modifier, the players had their say in it but DW Still did what they wanted regardless who agreed with other players who werent DW.

Thats all im saying.

And i happen to think Franky is probably one of the most honest guys around the server even tho he can be a big noob! =D ahaha Franky ;) we luv ya really!! :sinlove:

[DW_ACY]

I Will quote something franky the fly said in game *obviously wont be a perfect quote but as i can remember it*

"DW Members have already spoken about this, but the DW Members made their decision on saying vorpal should stay as this *the new version that was made*" that was something about Vorpal weapon modifier, the players had their say in it but DW Still did what they wanted regardless who agreed with other players who werent DW.

Thats all im saying.

And i happen to think Franky is probably one of the most honest guys around the server even tho he can be a big noob! =D ahaha Franky ;) we luv ya really!! :sinlove:

So what's your point????

[DW_ACY]

i have seen about 6 DW People on UT2004, and about 14 people on GW and COD, so i think maybe the people who play should also have a say, otherwise people will start thinking that you dont care about them if they are not DW.

I agree, I think DW members should be the ones who actually play on DW.

Excuse me but I take offense at that and you just stepped over the line, who are you to tell anyone what a DW member should and should not do on DW servers. You may spend a lot of time there now but I have spent more time and some of my brothers and sisters have spent more time there, than you ever will. Your demands and ultimatums need to cease now!!!! You really do not have the clout or authority to make such a statement. I would be real careful here if I were you.

As for Akbal. Yes it is damned hard. I have never won it, ever. Yet with the right people even not winning can be fun. Sometimes it is good to fight to the bitter end, not to win, but to see how long you can survive, just like AbsoluteHell.

I also agree with you.
However I as much as anybody else would be lying if we would say: Winning it's not all.
Offcourse we all want to win the map.
However, like I said... I do agree with you, and it doesn't matter if we don't win as long as we are having fun with the right people.

But who are the right people?

>To me, the right people are those who help each other, for isntance medics healing everybody, not just them selves; Adrenaline masters making weapons for people who need most, not make all weapons infinite for them selves, and then there's a poor noob with some tiny little basic mp5 with just a few shots left.

>People who actually take the time to answer questions... which brings me to another issue, which is the server should have more tutorials in how to use the RPG system... correct me if I'm wrong.

>People who are level 200 and help noobs instead of feeling the need to follow noobs around to steal their kills and take all the xp, just because they want to be top of the score board.

So you see that depends of what type of "Right people" you are refering to.

It has been stated before many times, that invasion is a team based game type, but there are certain players who are selfish and seem to care more about their personal score than to enjoy the game and fight together as a team to the bitter end, as your-self has stated.

You are rehashing the same things we DW members have been telling people all along, don't claim it as your own now.

When a DW MM regular is on the server we will and do go out of our way to help. But as far as holding a new players hand if they can't take a suggestion or read the forums that are here to help their character development a little that is their problem. We are and do come on to the server to play the game. I have tried for years to get people to spend fifteen minutes getting info from the forums on the game type so they can be better players, the response I don't have time to read, or they refuse to read the in game descriptions or abilities. Oh and on that point time, time, time, and man hours to do the descriptions and all the work you causally keep throwing out there. You don't just give access to the server and it's file system to anyone. Not to mention an in-game tutorial is wasted because they can come to the forums and get the same info without taking up a slot on the server trying to read and figure things out.

As far as maps are concerned, I agree with Renegade, and maps should be tested by DW members who actually play on the server, and tested by players who play on the server regularly, like me, Dynadin, Renegade, Anonymouse, and many others.

So then who is it you believe actually plays on the server????? How do you know they are not a DW member???? How do you propose you get access to the testing????? I have reservations about your suggestion. You play a lot, there are a lot of people who play a lot! What makes you the optimal testers for maps???

[Nelsoncarmo26]

Calm down Acy, we state what we state because... and I think I speak for everyone who has a serious oppinion about the server, because we do care, and we do take time to state our oppinion.

If I didn't care, I would not be here, right now, typing this down.
If i din't care, I would just load the game, start the server, play, and don't give it a second thought about it.

I understand you have a personal life to live, and so do I.
Altough I'm unemployed, I still have my real life priorities, house work to do and people to care for, just like everyone else.
but yet, i still find the time to do my part and contribute to the server as much as I can.

If I could contribute finacially, trust me I would...

Wether you beleive it or not, we care... or I care as much for the server as DW members do.

[DW_FrankyTheFly]

Akbal is one of the easiest map I ever played. I DEMAND MORE CHALENGE!! :stongue: