Class Tutorial

[DW_Ant]

Do you see the need of having a tutorial class for new players that walks into the server?

This class will have extra perks in the beginning. The strengths of these perks depreciate until Rank II.

• Multiple lives
• Extra resistances
• Extra damage

This class also covers some basic abilities that teaches some elements of Monster Evolution:
For an example:

Some abilities are available to you in the misc abilities category. This is how you see the misc abilities....This ability requires you to get Airmaster.

Remember that you must have 100 adrenaline to activate adrenaline combos. This ability grants you adrenaline regeneration while activating an adrenaline combo. You must have 100 adrenaline to purchase this ability.

Some magical weapons are copiable. This is how you copy a weapon....This ability gives you a magic weapon maker that rolls a magic weapon...Level 2 gives you a noncopiable weapon. Noncopiable weapons have an * at the end of the name....

Threat value determines your experience reward when you damage a monster. More threat grants you more experience....This ability increases your threat level....

This class may also have some player monster abilities to ease up on the difficulty in killing a player as a monster, and to keep this class useful after Rank II (a reason why players may want to go back to this class if they want to go dedicated).

This class does not have anything new for Rank III and up. Meaning that the player will max out their character by level 100, and there will be nothing left to purchase. It will be an overpowered class for the first rank, and a bit powered for the second. This class will be not be stronger than any other Rank III and up classes.

Problem with this:
Players may be upset that they'll need to start over when they reach to level 100 if they wish to continue character building.
This class may be the most common record holder for low level maps.
Players may not want to use this class at all due to that constraint.
-or-
Players take advantage/potentially exploit this class just to gain additional lives (specially with that multiple lives perk).



What are you thoughts on this? Do you think I should conduct further investigation for this class?[/color]

[Azmodan]

I see a need for a tutorial class, since new players frequently ask about which class to take and explaining takes hours.
But I see the idea of a tutorial class a bit different.

-I don't think leveling should be allowed for this class. It's purpose is to get an idea how the classes work and then buy one, not level for 100 hours. My suggestion is instant Rank 2 and enough points to buy anything for it and thats it.
-Extra resistances would give you the feeling that berserker class can take much more damage than it actually does. After actually purchasing berserker people wont like it. So no extra resistances (Rank 2 after purchase, no more)
-weapon masteries maxed out for rank 2 too
-extra lives: yeah why not but player monsters can't be allowed to re-spawn after a kill or there will be massive abuse. (Or the tutorial class has to stay dead after being killed by a player monster.)
-additional descriptions are not really needed, info button for the abilities explains the important stuff.
-more player monster abilities would be nice for everyone (The regen right now may be one too) but please make the total point cost needed to buy them dividable by 5, I don't like uneven points :)

[DW_Ant]

I don't think leveling should be allowed for this class. It's purpose is to get an idea how the classes work and then buy one, not level for 100 hours. My suggestion is instant Rank 2 and enough points to buy anything for it and thats it.

Was thinking about restricting level up, but then I'm afraid that the new players would just purchase anything they see without giving a second thought in the RPG strategy. Trying to avoid the players from randomly spamming the buy button. However, I'm not opposed to "skipping" levels. For example: by level 25, you can hit this free 25 levels ability that makes them jump to rank II. It's easy to get up to level 40 within the first week. Is it necessary?

Extra resistances would give you the feeling that berserker class can take much more damage than it actually does. After actually purchasing berserker people wont like it. So no extra resistances (Rank 2 after purchase, no more)

This class will be a normal class by rank II.
The class's perk will give you 50% resistances for level 1. This perk decrements to zero the closer to you get to level 50. For example: you'll be at 40% extra resistance by level 10. 25% by level 25. 10% by level 40. etc...

-weapon masteries maxed out for rank 2 too

By level 100, all abilities and attributes (health, masteries, resistances) can be maxed out.

-extra lives: yeah why not but player monsters can't be allowed to re-spawn after a kill or there will be massive abuse. (Or the tutorial class has to stay dead after being killed by a player monster.)

Player monsters don't resurrect themselves if they use up one of the lives from this class. (Very much like Companion Sacrifice or Spirit resurrection). The player monsters must kill the player to resurrect themselves.

-additional descriptions are not really needed, info button for the abilities explains the important stuff.

Additional descriptions = explaining how to copy weapons or how does threat value works?

-more player monster abilities would be nice for everyone (The regen right now may be one too)

Coding for player monster abilities aren't difficult. I was hoping that someone with coding experience would like to dip their toes in the RPG mod. That's why I placed the proof of concept ability to open the door for opportunities. No one took it yet.
I can see how vampirism for monsters would work nice for Berserkers only, while extra defensive abilities would work for Protective.
Another reason why I haven't gone far for player monster abilities: one of the concerns we have with player monster abilities is that some have difficulty picturing why someone would purchase abilities that doesn't directly improve your main character. It doesn't really make sense to level up your character only to spend stat points on something that doesn't improve that character.

I see it fitting to have a player monster only class (going dedicated only) to resolve that issue, but then that further divides the team.
This class's specialty/uniqueness in player monster's abilities will keep this class useful. Even after the player maxes out this character: they still have a reason to go back to it if they want to play as a dedicated monster on a map they don't like. Their time investing for this class is not wasted.

but please make the total point cost needed to buy them dividable by 5, I don't like uneven points :)

Either we have even stat points with disproportional ability costs, or uneven points with reasonable ability costs.

[Azmodan]

Was thinking about restricting level up, but then I'm afraid that the new players would just purchase anything they see without giving a second thought in the RPG strategy. Trying to avoid the players from randomly spamming the buy button. However, I'm not opposed to "skipping" levels. For example: by level 25, you can hit this free 25 levels ability that makes them jump to rank II. It's easy to get up to level 40 within the first week. Is it necessary?

How about 20 or 25 points per level? Keeps up the RPG, still shows that leveling gets harder but they don't need as long to see how the stuff works.

This class will be a normal class by rank II.
The class's perk will give you 50% resistances for level 1. This perk decrements to zero the closer to you get to level 50. For example: you'll be at 40% extra resistance by level 10. 25% by level 25. 10% by level 40. etc...

Like I wrote earlier, I don't like the idea of a tough low level. It goes completely against usual RPG. I am ok with a tutorial class to see what the real stuff is like but not as additional class to play for weeks. The players who like DW-RPG like it because the game is hard and levels don't come easy so you have to think about what to buy (At least thats the impression I get from the players).

Player monsters don't resurrect themselves if they use up one of the lives from this class. (Very much like Companion Sacrifice or Spirit resurrection). The player monsters must kill the player to resurrect themselves.

Really? Low level protection, additional resis, multiple lives and then you do not even get rez if you should ever manage to kill one? (Haven't seen someone kill a player under lvl 25 so far)
And should the player die he gets additional monster skills and piercing damage (because he is dead) to hunt down the normal classes and then gets a new set of lives? This will turn the server into Death Match for sure.

Additional descriptions = explaining how to copy weapons or how does threat value works?

I doubt that anyone will read additional messages anyways and threat and copying aren't important to understand the game and to see if you like a class. And if you really want to know about it thats what we are making the Wiki for.

Coding for player monster abilities aren't difficult. I was hoping that someone with coding experience would like to dip their toes in the RPG mod. That's why I placed the proof of concept ability to open the door for opportunities. No one took it yet.

I am only good at copying code that others did. I understand most of the coding after a bit, when I see it, but I am not great at making new things up. (In code, I am great with useless ideas :snod: ) And I don't have any programming tools.

I can see how vampirism for monsters would work nice for Berserkers only, while extra defensive abilities would work for Protective.

If you want to keep the division into classes up on player monsters which isn't really needed with the current weak monsters.

Another reason why I haven't gone far for player monster abilities: one of the concerns we have with player monster abilities is that some have difficulty picturing why someone would purchase abilities that doesn't directly improve your main character. It doesn't really make sense to level up your character only to spend stat points on something that doesn't improve that character.

Hmmm lets see, I died: Ran out of ammo, adren, HP, whatever. I spend 5-10 levels of points (currently much less) in monster abilities which would otherwise be 50-100 adren or HP. I kill someone and start with full HP, full adren/shield, ammo, arties(depending on class). Makes sense to me. :snod: And the higher the player is the more sense it makes. It is hard to kill a high level player but the difference between a fresh spawn and an almost dead one gets bigger the higher the player is so i would spend a few points in player monsters any time.

Either we have even stat points with disproportional ability costs, or uneven points with reasonable ability costs.

There are enough possibilities: 2,4,6,8 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 4,4,4,4,4 3,3,3,3,3 3,5,7 5,5,5 5,10,15 4,8,12,16,20 1,3,5,7,9

just not any more skills with: 3,3,3 4,4 2,3,4,5 11,12,13 and such stuff.

[DW_Ant]

How about 20 or 25 points per level? Keeps up the RPG, still shows that leveling gets harder but they don't need as long to see how the stuff works.

It sounds good, but I'll have to do some nasty hacks to do that. I'm going to try to avoid that.

Really? Low level protection, additional resis, multiple lives and then you do not even get rez if you should ever manage to kill one? (Haven't seen someone kill a player under lvl 25 so far)

Yes, it seems foolish to attack a low level tutorial class. Don't attack them unless they're the only target(s) left.
Bran new players should not have to worry about player monsters and understand the flow of the server simultaneously. Around level 20, the new player should begin to know that the player monsters are becoming more a threat to them.

And should the player die he gets additional monster skills and piercing damage (because he is dead) to hunt down the normal classes and then gets a new set of lives? This will turn the server into Death Match for sure.

It won't turn the server into a deathmatch. People will pick their battles if they know they have a fighting chance.
Player monsters will know better (or eventually will learn) not to attack low levels or this class specifically. If this class is the only target, then that means that everyone else is dead. Even a level 20 cannot withstand a whole squad of player monsters (assuming that the players have accumulated some points). The game ends if they kill the last player.

If you want to keep the division into classes up on player monsters which isn't really needed with the current weak monsters.

Weak monsters don't need help from abilities?
You just reminded me about the tough monsters. Stacking abilities with these fellas may go beyond overkill. Should the monster abilities work inversely with the strength of the player's current monster class?

There are enough possibilities: 2,4,6,8 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 4,4,4,4,4 3,3,3,3,3 3,5,7 5,5,5 5,10,15 4,8,12,16,20 1,3,5,7,9

just not any more skills with: 3,3,3 4,4 2,3,4,5 11,12,13 and such stuff.

I don't want to adjust ability values based on the current level's cost. Usually works the other way around.
Also don't forget about shared abilities in the misc category unless your advising that I change the cost values for those abilities, too.

[Azmodan]

It sounds good, but I'll have to do some nasty hacks to do that. I'm going to try to avoid that.
Other way may be to give the tutorial class the special ability that everything just costs the half.

It won't turn the server into a deathmatch. People will pick their battles if they know they have a fighting chance.
Player monsters will know better (or eventually will learn) not to attack low levels or this class specifically. If this class is the only target, then that means that everyone else is dead. Even a level 20 cannot withstand a whole squad of player monsters (assuming that the players have accumulated some points). The game ends if they kill the last player.

I didn't mean the problem is the current classes attacking the tutorial class but the other way around. The tutorial class with its unique player monster abilities (As you have planed them) will turn it into a death match. And the other classes can't strike back thanks to additional resis and lives etc.

Weak monsters don't need help from abilities?
You just reminded me about the tough monsters. Stacking abilities with these fellas may go beyond overkill. Should the monster abilities work inversely with the strength of the player's current monster class?

I said it is not needed to divide new abilities for player monsters so that only 1 class can buy them. The current monsters are so weak that it is no problem for them to have all new abilities. I don't think it will be overkill, most of the good monsters have insane time limits on them so the match has to run for 40mins+ to get them (Ion dragon, fury titan, queen, etc). So it is ok to try the abilities on them in full strength i guess.