Update Preview: Change of Game Rules

Anything and everything related to the Evolution server.
DW_Ant
DW Clan Member
Posts: 2679
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Location: North Carolina

This next update will go through several major changes. I'd figured that informing you ahead of time better prepare you for next update.

  1. When entering the game, you'll be alive regardless if other players are dead or not. You will only be out when you've already entered the game with the same name.

    Reason: It's cool to enter the server alive.
  2. Your end game experience is determined by what percent that character appeared in the match. If you entered the at the second half of the game, you'll only gain 50% of the end game exp if you've beaten the map. If you were there for the whole game, you'll gain all end game exp. The timer begins when you enter the server, and ends when you disconnect.

    Your time played is linked to your name. If you reconnect, your time played will resume from where it left off. You will begin a new timer when you enter the server as a new name.

    Reason: This is the response to the first change (enter the server alive regardless if someone is dead or not). The concern is that players will often reconnect to gain additional lives. With this constraint, the player will have to make a choice. Should they die in mid game, they'll have to make a choice. Do they think that if they join as a new character, will they gain more exp because they are alive again, or will they gain more exp by staying dead because their invested time for the full end exp.
    Also, this prevents late-joining players from leeching the end game exp. Achieving the 25 exp threshold to gain the end game exp is easy to do. They could do that in the last 5 minutes of the game, and gain the full benefits the original attackers worked hard for. With this constraint, the late-joiners will gain the end game exp for the portion of the map they played for. If they only played for the last 5% of the game, they will only gain 5% of the end game exp.
  3. In response to the 2nd change, the end game exp threshold is dropped from 25 to 1.

    Reason: The 25 end game threshold is obsolete compared to the new method. The 1 end game exp threshold remains to prevent idlers from gaining exp.

The following changes are regarding to player monsters...
This is a response to the general attitude against player monsters.
  1. Dedicated monsters will gain 60 exp per kill instead of 30.

    Reason: Several players feel like their lives have been wasted only to give another player 30 exp. This will double their value.
    Also, this will also increase motivation to become a dedicated monster. More frequent dedicated monsters appearances will make the attackers accustomed to dedicated monsters instead of having individuals holding grudges against the few dedicated monster players that play that side for fun.
    The number of dedicated monsters per match is at risk for being dropped from 50% to 25%.
  2. Players can use Reclamation Coins to spawn as a friendly player monster. Keep reading in how to obtain these Reclamation Coins. Some monsters with high damage (such as Lucifer and Titan) cannot be spawned as a friendly player monster. Monster Tokens cannot be used to spawn better friendly player monsters because of change number 6.

    Reason: Making the server more monster-oriented. Enables more opportunities for monster vs monster combat.
  3. When a player is killed by a player monster, the victim gains a Reclamation Coin.

    Reason: Reducing the negative impact when getting slain by a player monster. Also gives the human attackers another reason to stand and fight a powerful player monster instead of running out in the middle of a large group of AI monsters to preserve their pride.

    This will also encourage dead players to be more proactive in the game. They don't have to feel guilty when they slay a player, knowing that the person they killed can either choose vengeance or become a friendly player monster.
  4. Spawn time interval is determined by which monster you spawn as. Spawning a powerful monsters will give the player a much longer spawn delay next life compared to the weak monsters where the player can spawn much more frequently.

    Reason: Seeing the 180+ second timer to be able to spawn as another Krall is demotivating.
    The reason why the interval was set so high when there are many dead players was because of the concerns that the server was becoming a giant deathmatch with all of the player monsters roaming around. Hopefully the Reclamation Coins will prevent a continuous deathmatch from happening.
  5. When a player monster kills a higher leveled player, both the victim and the killer will gain a Reclamation Coin.

    Reason: Give a reason to target a high level instead of low levels.
  6. Based on the player's position on the scoreboard and the strength of the monster the player spawned as, the player will gain Monster Tokens every time they spawn as a monster. The further down the player is relative to the high score players, the greater monster tokens they'll gain.

    Reason: Players often give up when they died with 5 points, and the only survivors are rank 3 and above. With this addition, they can invest their monster spawn attempts to add pressure to the attackers. The survivors should not take their sweet time if there are dead players. The longer they take, the more powerful the player monsters become. Players could spawn monsters then immediately suicide only to gain better player monsters. Because of this, Monster Tokens cannot be used to spawn better friendly player monsters.
  7. There will be a new Player Monster Menu to be able to support all of these functions.

    Reason: Making the player monsters a much more important element in the game instead of just a minor extension of it.
    This new menu will also add several other features and fix several preexisting problems, too:
    • Since the monsters are rendered in the menu, the players may precache the monsters in the menu instead of freezing up in combat. The precaching option can be disabled via DWMenu.
    • The players can learn more about the monster's attributes. Health values, speed, scoring values, and major resistances are given to them when they see the monster.
    • The player can immediately see what monsters they can or cannot spawn. Not only they are immediately informed when they can spawn, but they can also see if the selected monster is available. Monster Tokens and Reclamation Coins are also shown in this menu rather than going through the console to see them. Monsters with scores that are greater than the player's are not visible.
    • The player can see what the monster is before they spawn it. This reduces the chances of being disappointed by a misleading name, or reducing the chances of spawning the wrong monster.
I plan on updating the server by this November. There are several untested elements and I'm currently under a unpredictable schedule, so a date is not confirmed.

Any questions, comments, or concerns?[/color]
The difference between successful people from others is
not in the lack of strength,
not in the lack of knowledge,
but rather in the lack of will.

FFE466

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Habulin
Camper
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:47 pm

I am looking forward to those changes. I think that your changes will have a very positive effect on the players and I can't wait to try the new dedi system! Good job Ant, for doing so much for the server! And thank you for your efford.


LP Habulin
El_Salvador_503
Camper
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:51 pm

So if I kill a player as Dedi that player will get a Reclamation Coin and use it to be a friendly monster to fight me? If so, is that friendly player monster kill me what will happen? Will they get something?
If we don't do what we love, no matter if we do it all day we will always be unoccupied...
DW_Ant
DW Clan Member
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

El_Salvador_503 wrote:So if I kill a player as Dedi that player will get a Reclamation Coin and use it to be a friendly monster to fight me? If so, is that friendly player monster kill me what will happen? Will they get something?
If a dedicated monster killed a player, the victim will still gain a Reclamation Coin. Dedicated monsters cannot use Reclamation Coins.

Friendly player monsters will work the same way as if a Necromancer resurrected you from Resurgence. You can still damage monsters (pm or ai), and you keep the experience points for yourself.
The difference between successful people from others is
not in the lack of strength,
not in the lack of knowledge,
but rather in the lack of will.

FFE466

_________________________
{F}{AH}{CivFR}{XC}{U}{DF}{CJ}{SD}
DW_WailofSuicide
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1634
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am

This sounds pretty good Ant, I'm looking forward to the changes. I particularly like the idea of Reclamation Coins.
Thwart
1337 Haxor
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:26 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois

DW_Ant wrote: Friendly player monsters will work the same way as if a Necromancer resurrected you from Resurgence. You can still damage monsters (pm or ai), and you keep the experience points for yourself.[/color]
Will this make Resurgence a bit useless and undesired since you can potentially become a better friendly monster than a zombie or skeleton? How hard/easy will it be to spawn as a "good" friendly monster with Reclamation Coins? I'm really curious what the difference would be between the two.

Since I can't pick who will spawn with resurgence, I might accidently spawn someone that has many reclamation coins and wanted to use those for something better.
"To be positive: to be mistaken at the top of one's voice." -Ambrose Bierce
SomethingToSay
1337 Haxor
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:25 am

Will there be a small pocket of time that doesnt' count against you at the start of maps?

Meaning, some people take longer to load for others, ie joining 10 seconds or so later than others, (one guy has 38:33 played, another has 38:20 due to loading etc) would they miss on a little XP? not a big issue I'm sure, but something small.


Should be interesting... I'll certainly give this a chance :) So it also means there's no more "you can rejoin if you're the first one dead" rule, now you can rejoin no matter who's dead on another name and keep playing, but you'd be sacrificing points on the other name.

Could make it tougher in some ways, I've had times my paladin dies, then I rejoin as support so I can give people adren and ammo til the next rez, now I probably will be stuck waiting more on my paladin name since I'm not going to give up the precious little end game XP there is :(


I think the # of dedicated monsters SHOULD be dropped from 50 to 25 for sure. I also think Face Huggers should be gotten rid of, but that's just me, we've talked about that a bit x_x

So now dedicated monsters can fight regular player monsters? I've actually been wanting PMs to be able to attack other PMs for a while, I like that.


I'm not getting what happens to monster tokens and iso combat with this... and on the friendly player monster side in particular. Now there are reclamation coins AND monster tokens? It says monster tokens can't be used anymore for PMs... hows that work?


If I die in a match as a player, I can spawn as a monster to try to kill players and get back in OR attack dedis? Or do they fall under 1 category, if I die and resurrect as a player monster I can attack dedi AND players?


I do really like being able to see what the monster is b4 spawning it xD The new menu sounds like an improvement for sure.
DW_Ant
DW Clan Member
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Thwart wrote:Will this make Resurgence a bit useless and undesired since you can potentially become a better friendly monster than a zombie or skeleton? How hard/easy will it be to spawn as a "good" friendly monster with Reclamation Coins? I'm really curious what the difference would be between the two.

Since I can't pick who will spawn with resurgence, I might accidently spawn someone that has many reclamation coins and wanted to use those for something better.

This shouldn't make Resurgence obsolete.
At some point there will be dead players without a reclamation coin. Especially early in the game, players will not have reclamation coins if they are the first to die. The only possible way to gain a reclamation coin is to get killed by a player monster or to kill a higher level player.
The Necromancer's Resurgence is basically a freebee to get the players back into the game as a friendly character.

Using a Reclamation Coin may give you better monsters to choose from, but it costs the player a coin to spawn as a friendly player monster, which is still limited.

SomethingToSay wrote:Meaning, some people take longer to load for others, ie joining 10 seconds or so later than others, (one guy has 38:33 played, another has 38:20 due to loading etc) would they miss on a little XP? not a big issue I'm sure, but something small.
The game timer will begin as soon as the match starts. There's already a "wait for other players" timer before the game begins.
SomethingToSay wrote:I think the # of dedicated monsters SHOULD be dropped from 50 to 25 for sure.
My future plans for dedicated monsters are preventing me from reducing this number from 50% to 25%.

SomethingToSay wrote:I also think Face Huggers should be gotten rid of, but that's just me, we've talked about that a bit x_x
Facehuggers will remain. No class should be completely safe from player monsters...even if they are a level 200 Paladin.

SomethingToSay wrote:I'm not getting what happens to monster tokens and iso combat with this... and on the friendly player monster side in particular. Now there are reclamation coins AND monster tokens? It says monster tokens can't be used anymore for PMs... hows that work?
Monster Tokens can be used to spawn better hostile player monsters. The player gains Monster Tokens either through killing monsters in the Iso Combat, or by spawning as a hostile monster in the main assault.

Monster Tokens are ignored when attempting to spawn a friendly player monster.

SomethingToSay wrote:If I die in a match as a player, I can spawn as a monster to try to kill players and get back in OR attack dedis? Or do they fall under 1 category, if I die and resurrect as a player monster I can attack dedi AND players?
No one is telling that you cannot spawn as a friendly player monster only to get even with the dedicated monster that killed you.
That statement in the initial post was visualized when you were killed as a temporary player monster. When they kill you, they will be resurrected, and you will get a Reclamation Coin. You can either spawn as a hostile player monster to kill the resurrected player, or spawn as a friendly player monster to fight for the attackers.
The difference between successful people from others is
not in the lack of strength,
not in the lack of knowledge,
but rather in the lack of will.

FFE466

_________________________
{F}{AH}{CivFR}{XC}{U}{DF}{CJ}{SD}
SomethingToSay
1337 Haxor
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:25 am

So when you die, you open up the menu, and it's split into 2 parts, one part is with friendly monsters, one side is hostile monsters.

The hostile monsters (which can be beefed up in iso exactly as-is now) don't attack any dedicated monsters or in game monsters, only players, and if they kill a player, they're back in the game, and the killed player gets a reclamation coin.

If you get a reclamation coin, or decide against being a hostile monster, you spawn as a friendly player monster(and can use the reclamation coin toward this), which doesn't hurt players, but instead attacks dedicated monsters, and enemy monsters in-game.

Do I have this right so far? Just making sure I understand...

So do friendly player monsters gain XP as normal? You can continue leveling up and etc and add to your score as a FPM?




I'm also wondering about, you said the reason that you want it time based for end-game XP rather than as it is, is because people will switch names.... but why is switching names frowned upon?

I'd argue that

1. Most people's other names are weaker, meaning they're helping build up a weaker name, not getting as much XP on it, and can die more easily anyway

2. Thus, if people are reconnecting "for additional life", it's not necessarily additional life, since it's a weaker life and not even helping the same name. Since you can come in with people dead already, the option to switch is now open to everyone, you don't get screwed if you're the 2nd person who dies and the first doesn't want to switch, so it opens it up more fairly for those who have multiple names and want to build up multiple classes

3. People often switch names to help the team. Just tonight we saw Sal switch from his paladin to his support to make adren, then to his berserk to be a stronger attacker on xeno part 2. So in a way, it hurts the team, as people will no longer be able to change to a name that could help the team out.

The system before, yes, was unfair since only the first dead could switch names, but if you're not doing it based on who's dead/alive, then it's open to anyone to switch, taking that unfairness out...


I'd prefer it to be IP based, rather than name, so if you're playing the full game, but switching names to be more useful to the team, you don't get penalized. It feels somewhat like a penalty for being useful, since it's promoting having an extra gun in the lineup and different skills, just curious what your thoughts are on that
DW_Ant
DW Clan Member
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

SomethingToSay wrote:So when you die, you open up the menu, and it's split into 2 parts, one part is with friendly monsters, one side is hostile monsters.
The menu differs from what you describe. I'll be posting a preview screenshot of the menu, when it's finished.

SomethingToSay wrote:I'm also wondering about, you said the reason that you want it time based for end-game XP rather than as it is, is because people will switch names.... but why is switching names frowned upon?
Switching names is not frowned on. I don't want to give long-term veterans that have 4+ characters a huge advantage over anyone else on the server.

SomethingToSay wrote:1. Most people's other names are weaker, meaning they're helping build up a weaker name, not getting as much XP on it, and can die more easily anyway
Not always the case, I rarely play my strongest characters. If I'm going to change my name, I'll be bringing something much stronger than my dead character.

SomethingToSay wrote:3. People often switch names to help the team. Just tonight we saw Sal switch from his paladin to his support to make adren, then to his berserk to be a stronger attacker on xeno part 2. So in a way, it hurts the team, as people will no longer be able to change to a name that could help the team out.
People still can change their class in mid game.
The difference between successful people from others is
not in the lack of strength,
not in the lack of knowledge,
but rather in the lack of will.

FFE466

_________________________
{F}{AH}{CivFR}{XC}{U}{DF}{CJ}{SD}
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