Death Warrant Forums

I think the answer should be as simple as setting the minimum player level for the monsters to something around 90-100, but adjustable to the lowest player above that.

As it stands right now, if all the low levels die, we're utterly screwed. Why don't we just play off of this to avoid damaging the delicate balance between classes that is being held?

No more secret rooms. PLEASE. I hate the very idea of a "Secret Room." Why not just give everyone Infinite Protection Enhanced Redeemers with hitscan accuracy, full-on Cautiousness, and call it a day. If a monster can't reach you, then what's the difference? Either way, the monster loses.

Speaking of an Enhanced Redeemer... God I hate that thing.

I also agree with Toxic, I like the idea where it is still possible to actually 1v1 a monster without having to avoid the Enhanced Redeemer equivalent weaponry that the Nali Cows wield... It's more exciting to break even with them than to pwn or be pwn't.

No more fast adren spawns. If they are fast, no more then standard adren pill sizes (2.)

I would not under any circumstances, remove energy weapons, as they are more effective than energy leech (6-8% as compared to 0-5%). With my lvl 240 Adrenaline Master, I have tried and found it not even remotely possible run a globe at the levels I proposed above, without some sort of energy weapon. Also, I would not remove the Globe from the Adrenaline Master loadout, seeing as an adrenaline master would be a waste of time without one. The Globe is to the Adrenaline Master as Vampirism is to a Weapon Master. A Weapon Master may not be invinsible, but they can replenish their HP VERY quickly, and don't have to rely on adren to utilize their vampirism. An adrenaline master can become invulnerable but rely on adren to keep the globe running, but as their adrenaline dies, they are almost certainly without hope. If this situation occurs, they normally rely on Vampiric weaponry, another item up for removal.

I've also noticed a trend that it seems the server is being directed to where the Weapon Master utterly PWNs every other class. Medics have been cut down, first reducing the total monster count, then lowering monster efficiency drastically, and then more cuts to the total count have been proposed, leaving them with a relatively weak infinite weapon and the ability to die just a little bit slower. Adren Masters lost the double magic modifier, and now energy weapons and globes? If globes were removed from the loadout, then I think it would be appropriate that Vampirism for WM's be removed as well. Also without effective monsters, medics are forced to rely solely on one weak weapon, WM's should be limited to non-ONS weapons in the Loaded Weapons skill (Primarily, no Mine-Layer or Superweapons.) Otherwise, People will stop playing the other classes, and then there will be no-one to heal Weapons Masters and make weapons for Weapon Masters.

I still say medics should be either offensive or defensive, but not both as it is now. What drives me crazy about the class is that it is so close to being a good offensive class with it's damage reduction, but not quite. It's also convenient for low levels to go defensive with exp healing and pests... pets... (I decided to leave that typo because it amused me...) But Exp healing quickly becomes VERY ineffective (Around 45) and you have to get to 100+ before you can even start pets that aren't completely worthless.

I kinda like to have a possibility of both, maybe a new class... a "Combat Medic," and a "Protector Medic" if you will. One to stay on the frontlines, to heal AND help fight with a "Combat Medic weapons," with 130% damage. Complemented with one to stay farther back, Summoning Pets (I like the idea of having Golems, similar to Diablo II, each one with specific bonuses: Vampirism, Protection, etc.), putting up temporary protective barriers and healing aura's to help keep those pivotal low levels alive, and give them "Protector Medic weapons" with 50% damage. I would recommend increasing EXP bonus for the exp healing skill either way. DB, WS, and DR are all increased above what I am to understand as "Default" for Druids RPG, but this skill wasn't, so it's obvious to me why it's so much easier to get EXP and level up shooting monsters with 350 DB, then standing around healing people with a skill equalized to something around 80 DB. If we want medics to heal people, we should reward them for it. I know this statement seems senseless considering it is a percentage gain, but it doesn't seem very effective on this server compared to a server with lower stat caps.

I think the Adrenaline Master is fine where it's at. I wouldn't change it. After playing a low level WM, I can see how some people feel that it would become overpowering at high levels (I mean, have you seen Franky?.) I was always under the assumption that WM's were the weakest class at first, but I was able to EASILY triple the score I would get with my adren master at the same level, also a factor that as a WM, I don't really have to help others very much, seeing as how WM's weren't really designed to. Other than passing out superflous weapons there's not much they can do. I didn't have to make weapons for others, or heal others. I actually got to go out and play for once.

I'm just ranting, it's 6:08am by my clock...

i like youre take on the medic class Redeemer

and as for the new server apparently most want it harder and the question is how and keep everyone happy ?

There are some good thoughts here, but let's keep things in perspective....

We're not talking about any changes to the current server.

We're thinking of a second server because of the overcrowding of the first. With the closing of UI, we've seen an influx of people. The server is full for the better part of a day. We've run into our limit of reserved slots.

Wraith is one person, and he's not looking to take on a tremendous amount of work. We're just looking to give folks an outlet who are jonesing for a little MM but the main server has been full for 3 hours.

We cannot increase the number of people on the main server. It's a delicate balance right now between players and monsters. And technically, while the server can handle a couple more, many player's computers cannot.

It looks like we all agree that it should be a different experience. Maybe "harder" is not the right word. But it looks like we all want it to be more of a challenge to complete a map. We don't want to get buried at wave 6. We don't want to stomp on ants. We want a thrill of surviving to wave 12, 13, 14, etc.

We're not looking for wholesale changes. We're looking for little tweaks to accomplish the above goal.

Levels are not coming over. Nothing will get transferred. We'll all start fresh at whatever level is decided.

You'll still have your characters on the main MM server if you're just looking to pwn with your level 250 adren master.

Let's keep all of this in mind when thinking of ways to make this new server.

Rich (TW)

Should have known better...... just kidding

KillaDEATH wrote:I have a few observations I think are related to this topic.

I, like many others who play here alot, have a fairly high level Adren, an upper level Medic, a lower level weapons master but I do have all three characters.

For some reason I can play my Medic with an ugly hotel internet connection and still score at or near the top of the list almost every map. Why? I think it's because with a medic you go right to work. Get first blood and quickly make the only weapon you will use up until wave 16. Pets are near worthless and healing other players is sometimes harder than killing monsters. With the right infi medic weapon you fire constantly through the whole map healing inbetween waves. Not rocket science by any stretch.

The Adren master above something like level 100 needs no adren spawn. We will use it but it isn't needed. Once you make your weapon of choice you should waste no time killing and rolling weapons on the fly. No we usually never do this when there is an adren spawn on the map but you will also not find me and most of the other adren masters watching the score board either. We are usually making and sharing weapons and then go out and kill. Even with this roll party it still isn't hard to score in the top 5 or so on the board. This too isn't rocket science.

As a low level weapons master with max DB and advanced DB, I can have a friend make my weapon of choice and usually score at or near the top of the list even at my relatively low level. Vamp on every weapon you fire is actually kind of funny when you come from either a medic or adren master. Again if someone makes your weapon of choice for you how could you ever die before something like wave 11 or 12? It happens I know but really if you play and pay attention....

What is my point you might ask? I like the current server the way it is. The only thing I think I would change is the amount of points given for healing other players. It would promote the healing of others to medics who don't normally do so and it would do next to nothing to offset the balance of the game in it's current state.

Last thing to point out about the current server..... On any given map everyday..... constantly.... Who is the top player at the start of wave 16? I don't have to name names here.... It is the "Weapons Master" almost everytime. Yes there are several very talented Adren masters that will come in and clean house when they play because they kill monsters from the very first count down. But I don't see how the weapons master could be considered the underpowered class in any way. The scoreboard is the only proof needed.

My suggestion for a second server is simple in changes and not knowing what it takes to make these changes, I think this is more what you're asking so shoot me down if this falls in that category.

Take the current server and lower the player count to something like 12. Raise the beginning level to 100 with the points associated with making that level. Here's the big one.... ready? RESET the server once a month.

It's been said many times before but we still have our characters on the main server. I know everyone here can understand the effects of the lowest level being 100 will have on the monsters. Having the points already to distribute from the beginning will add to the excitment. Lower player count would actually make it harder in itself. The reset will keep "The Second Server" in it's place. This would make it completely different from the other server and yet have very little changes to make. I think it would be just plain fun.....

Perfect.

I've been following this thread, thinking about what changes would be good for the community and am in agreement with Killa. I don't think we should look at altering the Classes too much as they are good as they are. If you change the way the Classes play, people may just wait it out till they can get on the main server so they can play with their medics and spawn all the pets they want, or, go on their AM account so they can run around globing and mashing! This obviously will defeat the purpose of having a second server.
Starting the game with lev 100 and associated stat points to distribute, then resetting once a month is a great idea. It keeps the game fresh as you can try out different abilities you wouldn't normally try as they are permanent on the main server.
I think the second server should have monsterrs that aren't on the main server. Those monsters that have been tried before but then taken out as they are too difficult. The Rainbow Titans and Deemer Nalis are a couple i can think of but i'm sure there are others in Wraith's Pandorras Box! :cheers:

KillaDEATH wrote:I have a few observations I think are related to this topic.

I, like many others who play here alot, have a fairly high level Adren, an upper level Medic, a lower level weapons master but I do have all three characters.

For some reason I can play my Medic with an ugly hotel internet connection and still score at or near the top of the list almost every map. Why? I think it's because with a medic you go right to work. Get first blood and quickly make the only weapon you will use up until wave 16. Pets are near worthless and healing other players is sometimes harder than killing monsters. With the right infi medic weapon you fire constantly through the whole map healing inbetween waves. Not rocket science by any stretch.

The Adren master above something like level 100 needs no adren spawn. We will use it but it isn't needed. Once you make your weapon of choice you should waste no time killing and rolling weapons on the fly. No we usually never do this when there is an adren spawn on the map but you will also not find me and most of the other adren masters watching the score board either. We are usually making and sharing weapons and then go out and kill. Even with this roll party it still isn't hard to score in the top 5 or so on the board. This too isn't rocket science.

As a low level weapons master with max DB and advanced DB, I can have a friend make my weapon of choice and usually score at or near the top of the list even at my relatively low level. Vamp on every weapon you fire is actually kind of funny when you come from either a medic or adren master. Again if someone makes your weapon of choice for you how could you ever die before something like wave 11 or 12? It happens I know but really if you play and pay attention....

What is my point you might ask? I like the current server the way it is. The only thing I think I would change is the amount of points given for healing other players. It would promote the healing of others to medics who don't normally do so and it would do next to nothing to offset the balance of the game in it's current state.

Last thing to point out about the current server..... On any given map everyday..... constantly.... Who is the top player at the start of wave 16? I don't have to name names here.... It is the "Weapons Master" almost everytime. Yes there are several very talented Adren masters that will come in and clean house when they play because they kill monsters from the very first count down. But I don't see how the weapons master could be considered the underpowered class in any way. The scoreboard is the only proof needed.

My suggestion for a second server is simple in changes and not knowing what it takes to make these changes, I think this is more what you're asking so shoot me down if this falls in that category.

Take the current server and lower the player count to something like 12. Raise the beginning level to 100 with the points associated with making that level. Here's the big one.... ready? RESET the server once a month.

It's been said many times before but we still have our characters on the main server. I know everyone here can understand the effects of the lowest level being 100 will have on the monsters. Having the points already to distribute from the beginning will add to the excitment. Lower player count would actually make it harder in itself. The reset will keep "The Second Server" in it's place. This would make it completely different from the other server and yet have very little changes to make. I think it would be just plain fun.....

OMFG Killa you genious basterd you just expressed my thoughts completly. I could not get them out or articulate them but this is exactly what I would like to see as a second server.

To add to it Wraith is thier is any possible way for you to up the medic exp for healing I do not think anyone would say that is a bad Isea and it would promote the healing of others more often and buying that skill.

Okay my penny is is in the pot and I think the rest each moth would keep it fresh man how simple and awsome was that idea. :cheers:

Killa... You mean I could practice new and different ideas each and every month for my character of choice? And also try out new combinations to see which one is better? Nice... Someone get this man a drink!!!
:wav:

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. And by no means am I knocking Killa's suggestion. I think it is a very intriguing idea, however I have concerns that it may only cater towards a select few.

Take a look at the left hand top section of your browser. What do you see? A lot of people donating. The most curious thing is how many of those are NEW people.

Obviously over the past year or so, Wraith (and Bio, Wail, etc) have done a tremendous job making it what it is today. Sure, the demise of UI has brought in some new people, but they aren't just taking a look, many of them are actually building their characters and staying with the server. It's a testament to the hard work put in by Wraith and the others.

What am I getting at here? Well, what I'm trying to say is don't fix what ain't broken.

I've played on many Invasion servers over the past couple of years. So I have some experience playing on popular servers and not so popular ones as well. I have played on an INV server that reset every month or so. For a while it was fun but the novelty quickly wore off. The server would have a good number of people but you would notice something. Almost every month the number of regulars would dwindle. There would be new players joining the server every month but no one who really stayed for a long period of time. It got tiring having to reallocate stats every month. Some people think it would be fun to try different things, but you only have a limited amount of ways to play each character. In a short period of time, it will get boring and repetitive. I can't even find that server anymore. I'm sure there are other INV servers that do the same thing, but I wonder how many people play on them as well?

It seems like Monster Mash is building a community and bringing in new people to play the other servers as well.

In my opinion, if you create a second server that resets every month, it won't solve the problem with the current server being full all the time. I think people like building characters and keeping their stats. It's the nature of RPG. The idea of a server reseting itself and starting at lvl 100 is a great idea for those of us who have characters already built on the first server. What about the new people? What do they want? I think the answer is clear by how many people play the current server. The second server should cater towards the lowest common denominator. It should cater to everyone. Not just those of us who have played on the server for a while.

Obviously, Monster Mash is making a name for itself and people want to play the server. The community is growing and you are gaining new people every day. Why change things? Just create a second server with the same characteristics as the first. We all start at the same level. We all work together to finish the map.

What about those who want more of a challenge? Well, the second server is a refresh for many of us. Some of us have created new characters on the current server the past month or so and have leveled pretty fast, But how fast do you think you are going to level when everyone starts at 25? No high levels to link to or hand out infinite links. No real tankers to subdue Luci. Some of you should remember how hard it was when the server first opened up. Winning wave 16 was few and far between. I think it will be a very nice challenge indeed.

I believe the server as it is right now is very well balanced. The seekers are the great equalizers. It is almost impossible for an adren master to maintain globe and triple throughout waves 13-15. It's also the first time I see players like Kronos, Franky and Kabuki die. If you want more of a challenge, play a different way. Try not to run your globe except for wave 16. Stop using the mine layer. Etc etc. There are certain things you can do to challenge yourself instead of asking the admins to make things harder. If you just cater to the high levels, then the low levels get an unfair disadvantage.

This should make everyone happy, thus bringing in more donations to help the servers and expand the community even further outside of just the Invasion server.

This is all just my opinion. So take it for what it is.

Trowa

I have to agree with Trowa, why change anything. The server is running great and new people are joining everyday. So make another server just the same way as the first then all the new guys dont have to wait till someone leaves just to play. When the new server would start, it would be hard for the first couple of months untill people start reaching higher lvls and are able to stay alive longer. There wont be any 300+ lvls to help you get to the luci wave. So i say keep on trucking the way we are.