Death Warrant Forums

DW_WailofSuicide wrote:

Azmodan wrote:On TempleRun everything you don't kill on the way down you have to kill on the way back up or am I wrong about that? So in what way would that skip anything. Back when the flies downstairs gave exp ok, but now?

The point isn't about TempleRun per se, but on the general idea of whether allowing players to fall further with no damage alters how they navigate maps. Elevation changes are pretty frequently used in games to encourage players to take certain paths, but falling doesn't have much deterrence value if players can safely fall from pretty much any point of the map to another. I can think of plenty of scenes from other games that would be diminished if players in those games could routinely take 50ft falls with no ill effects. It does tend to make me unhappy when the solution to making a cool scene play out the way I want is "exaggerate everything by 4-8x to compensate for UT movement."

But in Argento could you not just make the walls higher so people can't jump over them, problem solved? it's not exactly taking away from the map, and there aren't really any maps on this server that have elevation changes encouraging players, this is called "UN"real for a reason lol :P

SomethingToSay wrote:But in Argento could you not just make the walls higher so people can't jump over them, problem solved?

DW>WailofSuicide wrote:It does tend to make me unhappy when the solution to making a cool scene play out the way I want is "exaggerate everything by 4-8x to compensate for UT movement."

In Argento's case, Wail will not only have to worry about the force fields, but also convert the entire rocky range into a mountain range. UT players can cover a lot of elevation when dodging up steep slopes.

SomethingToSay wrote:

DW_WailofSuicide wrote:

Azmodan wrote:On TempleRun everything you don't kill on the way down you have to kill on the way back up or am I wrong about that? So in what way would that skip anything. Back when the flies downstairs gave exp ok, but now?

The point isn't about TempleRun per se, but on the general idea of whether allowing players to fall further with no damage alters how they navigate maps. Elevation changes are pretty frequently used in games to encourage players to take certain paths, but falling doesn't have much deterrence value if players can safely fall from pretty much any point of the map to another. I can think of plenty of scenes from other games that would be diminished if players in those games could routinely take 50ft falls with no ill effects. It does tend to make me unhappy when the solution to making a cool scene play out the way I want is "exaggerate everything by 4-8x to compensate for UT movement."

But in Argento could you not just make the walls higher so people can't jump over them, problem solved? it's not exactly taking away from the map, and there aren't really any maps on this server that have elevation changes encouraging players, this is called "UN"real for a reason lol :P

My goal with Argento was really to do as little as I could with the original ONS map, and still make something that'd work out okay for Monster Evo. I really didn't want to change the environment of the map much, I added some rocks and walls and other bits to create a sense of progression throughout the map, but setting up the triggering, objectives and monsters is a lot of work in and of itself. (Seriously. It's several days worth of work just to get that all working decently.)
Completely changing the environment by adding more blocking terrain would've been outside of the scope of what I had decided I wanted to do with the map.

As for elevation changes that encourage players, I think you're not thinking of the same scenarios I am. I know I myself alter my gameplay habits on Thrust - If I'm on top of the Guidance Rocket facility, I'll go back inside and walk down via the ramp rather than jumping off the side. It's not a situation where walking off that building is going to kill me outright (normally), but as a player I'm going to avoid taking unnecessary damage so I'll take the 2 second detour inside and down the ramp instead of going off the ledge.

DW_WailofSuicide wrote:
My goal with Argento was really to do as little as I could with the original ONS map, and still make something that'd work out okay for Monster Evo. I really didn't want to change the environment of the map much, I added some rocks and walls and other bits to create a sense of progression throughout the map, but setting up the triggering, objectives and monsters is a lot of work in and of itself. (Seriously. It's several days worth of work just to get that all working decently.)
Completely changing the environment by adding more blocking terrain would've been outside of the scope of what I had decided I wanted to do with the map.

As for elevation changes that encourage players, I think you're not thinking of the same scenarios I am. I know I myself alter my gameplay habits on Thrust - If I'm on top of the Guidance Rocket facility, I'll go back inside and walk down via the ramp rather than jumping off the side. It's not a situation where walking off that building is going to kill me outright (normally), but as a player I'm going to avoid taking unnecessary damage so I'll take the 2 second detour inside and down the ramp instead of going off the ledge.

Oh I didn't realize it was already a map previously and converted :P makes more sense

BUT my question would be, what does taking those 5 extra seconds to go down the ramp rather than jumping off the side really add to the map? I'd rather just have a convenient fast way to move around, unless it does really have a purpose. I know at some point monsters spawn in that little courtyard area, perhaps it's to help deter that?

After playing Argento again, other than the high damage the monsters seem to do, it's not terrible, I think that one could grow on me a little, I'd hoped the crystal shards were a relic though, but they're not :( Thrust has certainly been strongly changed, just from making single jump work, gravity, and monsters spawning behind you(even in regular mode), does it give more XP than it used to too? Win XP?

SomethingToSay wrote: BUT my question would be, what does taking those 5 extra seconds to go down the ramp rather than jumping off the side really add to the map? I'd rather just have a convenient fast way to move around, unless it does really have a purpose. I know at some point monsters spawn in that little courtyard area, perhaps it's to help deter that?

I guess from your perspective it might not serve a particular purpose, but for me it's basically the gameplay that a level provides and player choice in how to approach it. Almost all levels in Monster Evolution are essentially about setting up scenarios where you want to go from A->B but you've got obstacles and enemies to overcome. If you can just go directly A->Z and skip what's in between, the gameplay is diminished.

SomethingToSay wrote:After playing Argento again, other than the high damage the monsters seem to do, it's not terrible, I think that one could grow on me a little, I'd hoped the crystal shards were a relic though, but they're not :( Thrust has certainly been strongly changed, just from making single jump work, gravity, and monsters spawning behind you(even in regular mode), does it give more XP than it used to too? Win XP?

Thrust gives out a fair bit more experience than before, moreso in hard mode of course.

Change log for October 27, 2012:

Monster Assault RPG

• End game experience is determined by what percent the player was in the game for. Joining the second half of the game will only give that player half end game experience. While the players that played from the start will gain full end game experience.
• Reduced end game threshold to 1 instead of 25. You only need 1 point to be able to gain end game experience.
• New rank I Paladin ability! Advanced Medkits. Advanced Medkits can super heal players and heal any monsters.
• Increase healing weapons effeciency by 66.67% so that healing shotguns work.
• Adrenaline combos, Armor Supremacy, or High Metabolism will disable the Paladin's perk.
• New interaction for Support players! Supports can now see what remains in their adrenaline syringe.
• Fixed replication issue with bActive for Adren Syringe. It's easier to toggle on/off the adren syringe.
• Supports can summon their lower level pets if they do not have the adrenaline to summon their current level. For example, you can still summon an Electric Dragon if you do not have enough adrenaline to summon an Ion Dragon.
• Revised Vigor ability description.
• Perpetuating Soul will not grant Berserker player monsters 10% extra damage resistance.
• Perpetuating Soul actually reduces Berserker damage by 10%.
• Oak Sage will not set client's hp any lower than 1 after the client loses its health boost.
• Optimized Experience Trigger for speed and readability.

DW Monster Assault (Player Monster changes)

• Bran new player monster menu! It can be accessed by typing 'PMMenu' in console.
  
• Players may choose to spawn as a friendly player monster if they have a Reclamation Coin.
• A Reclamation Coin is given to the victim when the victim is killed by a player monster.
• A Reclamation Coin is given to the player monster killer if they kill a player whose level is greater than the killer's level.
• The spawn time interval is determined by the player monster's previous monster's rating. The stronger the monster, the longer the wait time.
• Monster tokens are given to the hostile player monster if the player monster's current score (plus monster tokens) is low compared to the average score.
• Dedicated monsters are given 60 experience points per kill instead of 30.
• Player monster data is given to players when they open the player monster menu instead of entering the game.
• Replaced old player monster controls in DWMenu with player monster settings.
• When teleporting as a friendly player monster, you'll teleport near an attacker instead of near a hostile monster.
• You will lose all monster tokens when you become a dedicated monster.
• Global and individual player monster cheats are created for testing purposes. When playing offline, type in 'PMCheats' or 'GlobalPMCheats' in console.
• Revised teleport command to improve the chances of teleporting.

DW Monster Assault

• Players can enter the game alive regardless if other players are dead or not!
• Class icons will appear on the player's scoreboard!
• The game will not lose the player's score if they join as spectator or become a spectator in mid-game.
• New loading hints.
• Revised player records array. The game keeps track of dedicated monsters, muted players, player scores, and time played.
• Optimized Score Kill function for readability and speed.
• Optimized Change Team function for speed.

DW Assault Mapper Tools

• The DWMonsterSpawner will disable itself if the first trigger didn't satisfy the player requirements. This means, that the extra monster spawners will not spawn new monsters when a new player enters the server if the spawners were already triggered before. The mapper can choose to override this.
• The monster spawner will trigger its event property when it's finished spawning all of its monsters.
• Mappers can now override the monster's ambient sound through the monster spawner.
• Edited GUIInfoPage to allow mappers to override text parameters in case they want a page with much text.

Smart Monster Pack / Sample

• Monsters will alert all other nearby monsters when an attacker strikes them unexpectedly.
• All ranged doom monsters will strafe and attack more frequently.
• All doom monsters will properly update their prepivot when the mapper adjusts the monsters' scale.
• Doom monsters will not become "paralyzed" when getting struck with a lightning gun.
• Titans will not become "paralyzed" when shooting them with lightning guns.
• Cyberdemons will crush any enemy that is under their feet.
• Cyberdemons will shoot much more frequently.
• Cyberdemons are immune to any attack when they cannot see the attacker.
• All dragons are now resistant from getting crushed by vehicles.
• All Warlords are resistant from getting crushed by vehicles.
• Doomlords and Icelords are subclasses to Warlords. They now can have additional properties (like specific orders and teleportation options).
• Revised collision for all Dinotopia monsters. This fixes the following things for Dinotopia monsters:
  • Camera is zoomed back when playing as the larger dinosaurs.
  • Small dinosaurs (like the Dryosaurus) can fit through small doorways.
  • Amril will actually hit the small dinosaurs instead of aiming over their heads.
  • Reduced the amount of prepivot (abilities like awareness will not appear so far over the monster's head.
• Revised collision for the glass monster (it's skinnier and taller).
• Shrikes can now crouch. While crouching, the shrike takes 25% less damage.
• Player monster raptors can crouch.
• All AI monsters can jump if the attacker is at an elevated position.
• All monsters now have damage rating values for the new player monster menu. Although this doesn't do anything to the monster, it gives the player an estimation of the monster's relative offensive strength compared to Lucifer. Damage per projectile/melee attack, rate of fire, and projectile speed is considered.
• Reduced Spinner and Predator knockback by 50%.
• Reduced Raptor damage by 47%.
• Reduced Enlighten damage by 20%.

ME_RPGExpansion

• New Rank IV Necromancer ability: Pierce Armor (very similar to Amplify Damage)
• Curse range is doubled for Necromancers.
• Curses adren cost is reduced by 75% only when cursing normal monsters (full adren cost when cursing bosses).
• Curse adren cost is reduced by 50% when cursing player monsters.
• Resurgence no longer requires the Necromancer to purchase summon skeleton or zombie. Necromancers casting Resurgence without any summoning ability will summon ticks, trites, maggots, vulgars, and pinkies.
• Adren cost for Fatigue is reduced by 50%
• Necromancer's Wraith ability will not curse the killer for team killing.
• The Fatigue curse will reset player movement speed after the victim is cured.
• The Summon Skeleton and Summon Zombie abilities will not amplify their damage.
• The Summon Skeleton and Summon Zombie abilities' CostAddPerLevel property is now 1 instead of 2.
• Reaping Energy max level is 5 instead of 6.
• Many Necromancer skills now have alternative uses. By typing in 'AltActivateItem' in console will do the following actions:
  [align=center][table=border:1px solid #cccccc;][tr=border:1px solid #cccccc;][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Skill[/td][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Action[/td][/tr]
  [tr=border:1px solid #cccccc;][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Carrion Metamorphosis[/td][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Displays what soul you would consume if you were to cast this ability.[/td][/tr]
  [tr=border:1px solid #cccccc;][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Any Summon ability[/td][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Displays what soul you will consume if you were to cast this ability.[/td][/tr]
  [tr=border:1px solid #cccccc;][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Resurgence & Full Resurgence[/td][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Displays a list of souls you will consume by casting this ability. If you entered a name after the command (for example "AltActivateItem DW>Ant"), you will attempt to resurrect that player. In that example, it will attempt to resurrect DW>Ant; otherwise, it'll abort operations even if other players are dead.[/td][/tr]
  [tr=border:1px solid #cccccc;][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]Unnatural Shout[/td][td=border:1px solid #cccccc;]This will display what soul you will consume if you were to cast this ability. This will also display the total healing from this soul.[/td][/tr][/table][/align]

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When you say 'super heal', I assume you mean it'll be able(probably at max level?) to heal people to max health? Why not just get rid of regular medkits, or make these the new regular medkits?

Would also love for paladins and berserks to be able to see what's left in personal medkits and ammo pouches in the future, if they can't already :)

Looks pretty good though, my only problem was what you already know, I'd prefer IP rather than name based end game XP.

Thanks for the update :)

SomethingToSay wrote:When you say 'super heal', I assume you mean it'll be able(probably at max level?) to heal people to max health? Why not just get rid of regular medkits, or make these the new regular medkits?

Medkits do heal players to their max health. The super healing is healing a player 100 over their max health.

The only think I don't like is that you need to type that in console to spawns those medkits about making that Comand shorter like only one word?

DW_Ant wrote:

SomethingToSay wrote:When you say 'super heal', I assume you mean it'll be able(probably at max level?) to heal people to max health? Why not just get rid of regular medkits, or make these the new regular medkits?

Medkits do heal players to their max health. The super healing is healing a player 100 over their max health.

lol -_- i don't consider a health bonus of 0 and healing to 100 max health when there is a higher level of healing still to be done. The idea of "overmax" is silly. A max is the maximum absolute possible amount, which would be what you're considering "overmax". x_x

it's not like support can give you adrenaline or ammo OVERMAXED is it? They have 1 max, and for a health bonus of 0 the max would be 200, there are many maps including made by you that have health packs that heal people to the true max rather than base.


Is sal right about that though, you have to use the console for super medkits?