Death Warrant Forums

Some issues/inquiries I came across while playing this for half an hour or so:

SPOILERS below

SPOILERS below

SPOILERS below

SPOILERS below

1. (minor) difficulties are not specified which Volume represents what dificulty, unless I missed it. btw, left is easy, medium is hard (and right is kick-ass i assume).

2. (minor) after difficulty is chosen, NOT all the players are automatically teleported to map start (the box from which you sky-fall)...so you must suicide to get there if you have not teleported... 1 player (solo) is always teleported (edit: some players can be teleported after 3-5 seconds later on, but still not all players are teleported)

3. (minor) fall-damage from falling from start, I dont know if it is intended.

4. (major) there are no game-rules/objective. (unless I missed it, it would be usefull to be some short of intro-text of what you are supposed to do.) edit: removed this NOT to spoil anything

5. auto-ressurection (I assume its intended for that specific game type)

6. ticket-counting counts in groups of 5 and subtracts 3 groups at the same time. dont understant why.....you could have (-15) tickets instead of 3*(-5) tickets triggering at the same time.

7. (minor) ticket-counting continues to count even after you reached tickets below zero (game end).......until you vote next map.

8. respawning weapons???? (it is obviously intended to work this way) this will be bad if many players are online, players will need to wait to pick-up just the weapon, make a queue. (with 5 players and its hard to even possess 1 weapon)
(edit: this aspect can be really bad since there were instances of not been able to acquire a single weapon while 10 minutes alive [happened to me, and others], while ammo supply is large. it would be better to be replaced with NewWeaponBase actor. the same player can pick up the same weapon again, making it inavailable for teammates. Also weapon spawns seemed random, not 100% sure though, was trying to avoid monsters. also add a couple of random deemers !!!!!)

9. at one instance, after difficulty was chosen, not all players were teleported, and suicided, and after 3 seconds game was over, even before door to main area opened ...(edit: that happened more than 1 time, game was ended before it even started. Also once happened during the voting sequence, where players did not vote for about 2 mins and it was announced game over...bizarre)

10. captured all 3 flags: A,B,C, 2 minutes were left in timer, then we lost a flag, and after 10 seconds that timer went off (timer = 0), it annouced we lost game, then xp reward=300 (which we didnt get the 300xp), then it announced game won.....
I assume when timer hits zero, we need to have all flags in possesion to win game. if we dont, then we lose "lose game announcement". but since we captured all flags (if there are 3 flags only), i assume it checked the hypothesis if we captured all at any time, that is why it announced the "win game announcement" at end. no idea if there is 4rth flag or more. also the number of tickets when timer hit zero was positive. I assume when "number of tickets" = 0 -> game over while timer is above zero.

Whats the LevelLimiter for the map?? because no-one can get XP even if map actually WON.

christmas wrote:Some issues/inquiries I came across while playing this for half an hour or so:

1. (minor) difficulties are not specified which Volume represents what dificulty, unless I missed it. btw, left is easy, medium is hard (and right is kick-ass i assume).

2. (minor) after difficulty is chosen, NOT all the players are automatically teleported to map start (the box from which you sky-fall)...so you must suicide to get there if you have not teleported... 1 player (solo) is always teleported (edit: some players can be teleported after 3-5 seconds later on, but still not all players are teleported)

3. (minor) fall-damage from falling from start, I dont know if it is intended.

4. (major) there are no game-rules/objective. (unless I missed it, it would be usefull to be some short of intro-text of what you are supposed to do.) edit: removed this NOT to spoil anything

5. auto-ressurection (I assume its intended for that specific game type)

6. ticket-counting counts in groups of 5 and subtracts 3 groups at the same time. dont understant why.....you could have (-15) tickets instead of 3*(-5) tickets triggering at the same time.

7. (minor) ticket-counting continues to count even after you reached tickets below zero (game end).......until you vote next map.

8. respawning weapons???? (it is obviously intended to work this way) this will be bad if many players are online, players will need to wait to pick-up just the weapon, make a queue. (with 5 players and its hard to even possess 1 weapon)
(edit: this aspect can be really bad since there were instances of not been able to acquire a single weapon while 10 minutes alive [happened to me, and others], while ammo supply is large. it would be better to be replaced with NewWeaponBase actor. the same player can pick up the same weapon again, making it inavailable for teammates. Also weapon spawns seemed random, not 100% sure though, was trying to avoid monsters. also add a couple of random deemers !!!!!)

9. at one instance, after difficulty was chosen, not all players were teleported, and suicided, and after 3 seconds game was over, even before door to main area opened ...(edit: that happened more than 1 time, game was ended before it even started. Also once happened during the voting sequence, where players did not vote for about 2 mins and it was announced game over...bizarre)

10. captured all 3 flags: A,B,C, 2 minutes were left in timer, then we lost a flag, and after 10 seconds that timer went off (timer = 0), it annouced we lost game, then xp reward=300 (which we didnt get the 300xp), then it announced game won.....
I assume when timer hits zero, we need to have all flags in possesion to win game. if we dont, then we lose "lose game announcement". but since we captured all flags (if there are 3 flags only), i assume it checked the hypothesis if we captured all at any time, that is why it announced the "win game announcement" at end. no idea if there is 4rth flag or more. also the number of tickets when timer hit zero was positive. I assume when "number of tickets" = 0 -> game over while timer is above zero.

Whats the LevelLimiter for the map?? because no-one can get XP even if map actually WON.

Thank you all, who played this map on the server :thumbright: (wasn't able to join cause of busy private life)

1. There will come a newer version of this map with the a small info of what type of difficulty it would be..
(left = Easy Mode, middle = Hard Mode, right = Medium Mode)

2. I will check this issue/bug.

3. If you jump out of the plane you fall into a low gravity zone, which prevent you from losing your life/ticket (i would prefer parachute, but not available in this game).

4. Game Rules will come in next update.

5. If you lose your life, you will auto-ressurect in the game again (you paid your life with an ticket, like another chance).

6 It's simple from 3 objectives you lose -15 tickets and from 2 objectives that you havent captured you lose -10 tickets and 5 tickets you saved from losing. Every objective that you don't captured, you will lose -5.

7. Fixing in next update.

8. Random Weapons Spawner have the advantage that a flak weapon can spawn anywhere. I will check, how difficult it is to catch weapons in game.

9. Fixing in next update.

10. There are 3 flags in this map. The goal is to save much tickets you can.

Silly_Warlock wrote:On my first play I haven't seen any living dragons, only managed to get stuck on statue of one XD

After you captured a flag one randomly dragon will spawn above the flak. It need a bit time for the scripted trigger to decide what dragon, he would like to spawn there :sgiggle: .

DW_Apok@lypse wrote: Thank you all, who played this map on the server :thumbright: (wasn't able to join cause of busy private life)

1. There will come a newer version of this map with the a small info of what type of difficulty it would be..
(left = Easy Mode, middle = Hard Mode, right = Medium Mode)

2. I will check this issue/bug.

3. If you jump out of the plane you fall into a low gravity zone, which prevent you from losing your life/ticket (i would prefer parachute, but not available in this game).

4. Game Rules will come in next update.

5. If you lose your life, you will auto-ressurect in the game again (you paid your life with an ticket, like another chance).

6 It's simple from 3 objectives you lose -15 tickets and from 2 objectives that you havent captured you lose -10 tickets and 5 tickets you saved from losing. Every objective that you don't captured, you will lose -5.

7. Fixing in next update.

8. Random Weapons Spawner have the advantage that a flak weapon can spawn anywhere. I will check, how difficult it is to catch weapons in game.

9. Fixing in next update.

10. There are 3 flags in this map. The goal is to save much tickets you can.
[/color]

Regarding "Random Weapons Spawner"....randomizing things is cool but as long as it doesnt create hussle....
I like it to the extent that when played, you communicate with your teammates where one is tossing weapons to the other who needs more that weapon (e.g. a paladin a RocketLauncher)...or where a player acquired many weapons, so he gives 1-2 weapons to the other player who doesnt carry any....
btw, this also beats the purpose of having a zerk to roll weapons for the team, weapons can NOT be copied due to the absense of locker or weapon base....

something that happened to me, more than once (hillarious fact):
I go to first WeaponSpawner, get a BIO (wtf, what am I supposed to do with that???), so I move on to next WeaponSpawner to get a ....BIO...are you shitting me????? I never used the bio...and I say my luck will change, speed up to next WeaponSpawner to get an...LG....wtf???? LG? to shoot monsters at 2 meters with LG ???

What I would do in this map is:
1. provide some locker at some location, that will open for an instance, and then close....for players to access all weapons at once....that would be like a room blocked or a locker in the center of the map area with a blocker on top of it (like Torlan's).....which would be triggered by an event (e.g. the first time you capture all 3 flags) and would be accessible for 30 seconds or so......
2. you made Random_Weapon_Spawners (cool) but you didnt consider spawning 1-2 deemers ????


Regarding Difficulty:
If easy = easy
then Medium = too hard
Medium at best we got as far at 17-18 minutes remaining, tickets = 0 (imagine that!!!!)
will not discuss on Hard difficulty since....we did not even consider playing it....

Also,
EASY = monsters are at 100% difficulty
MEDIUM = monsters are at 200% difficulty (doubled)
and
EASY = timer 15 mins
MEDIUM = timer 30 mins (doubled)
and
EASY = 200 starting tickets
MEDIUM = 150 starting tickets

= [200%/100%] * [30/15] * [(1/150)/(1/200)] = 2 * 2 * 1,33 = 5,32 times difficultier than Easy mode
just doubling monster difficulty would be enough -> medium dif_mode would be two timed the easy dif_mode

assuming you are using the Set_Variable to set new Monster_Difficulty = 2 (=200%)

Regarding Notification:
I would personally love to have more frequent info in the form of MessageType: CriticalEvent on my screen regarding the status of each flag...
the current info system is not too frequent....or I dont understand it that well in the form of: which direction should I rush to re-capture or protect flag from incoming enemies....

It would be cool (although it cant) if there were special voice taunts for this map like:
-I am at flag A
-I go at flag A
-I stick at flag A
etc....
right now, i type more than play.....(haha)

Regarding Monster's AI:
Nalis (white, allies,reinforcements) some times take too long to come at captured flag, other times they shoot at players, at summons, other times they dont even bother with monsters in their proximity.
true fact: you capture a flag and while there are no reinforcements you leave the flag area, and you return after 2 mins to see area is empty and flag is still captured. then on the other flag, reinforcements/nalis arrive, so you say its ok, you leave it, and return after 1 minute to see enemies within the flag area (enemy capturing) and nalis do nothing, just seating there. wtf???


Mercs (or whatever they are called, blue striped rocketteers,enemies) they come at a captured flag to re-capture it. besides the 1st wave of monsters (the ones spawned at game start), which have aggressive behaviour, the 2nd wave etc do NOT attack the player at all....they move slowly (turtle speed) towards captured flag radius, they enter it, and they stay there, you push them out, they move back in, they dont attack at all....doesnt make sense...

Regarding Ticketing System:
you have:
5 tickets loss/ minute for a non-captured flag
1 ticket loss/ player-death

and your system works as this:
providing a number of starting tickets (easy = 200 starting tickets )
with has to be a positive value when timer reaches zero, or if tickets reach zero, game will end....

it's a system that works, but this will cause the AS_Trigger_LoseGame in hard cases.....

why dont you consider ( just a suggestion, havent though it thoroughly at all), using the following rules:
a. 5 tickets loss/ minute for a non-captured flag
b. 5 tickets won/ minute for a captured flag
the above two will probably be checked every 60 sec intervals, and will either have value = captured or value = not-captured
you start at tickets = 0
c. 1 ticket loss/ player-death

and in order to get result, you need to finish game, aka....wait for the timer to reach zero.....

when timer = 0, you check number of tickets, and:
if the value of tickets < 0 --> Lose
if the value of tickets = 0 --> Lose
if the value of tickets > 0 --> Win --> WinXP = 200
if the value of tickets > 50 --> Win --> WinXP = 400 etc....
something in these lines.....

this will provide that the game will run for the full time (even if you know you gonna fail, yet you gonna test your progress in the amount of tickets achieved in a full map run) and not the game will shortly end... I also consider that this is not assault gametype, so you make the rules of the game any way you want, and you dont have to make it a survival type (as it feels now)....

ps: all the above values are random values, you can configure them any way you seem fit....e.g. you can make the capture/non-capture flag tickets of increasing value as the time passes, as you will increase difficulty of the latest waves and whatever else you like

Christmas wrote:3. (minor) fall-damage from falling from start, I dont know if it is intended.

The fall damage is my fault. I've increased the terminal velocity on the physics volume to fix the jumppads.

Christmas wrote:6. ticket-counting counts in groups of 5 and subtracts 3 groups at the same time. dont understant why.....you could have (-15) tickets instead of 3*(-5) tickets triggering at the same time.

The ticket system is a bit different from the table displayed earlier in this thread.
To place an emphasis on capturing objectives, the players will automatically lose 5 tickets per lost objective per minute.
-1 ticket per player death.

Christmas wrote:7. (minor) ticket-counting continues to count even after you reached tickets below zero (game end).......until you vote next map.

Don't worry about this issue, Apo. I'll fix this.

Apok@lypse wrote:8. Random Weapons Spawner have the advantage that a flak weapon can spawn anywhere. I will check, how difficult it is to catch weapons in game.

I think it's a bit cool to have a variation in the map. Having an unreliable method to obtain the ideal weapon makes this assault progression unpredictable. The biggest issue I have is that there is a chance where you can't find any good weapons (even on easy difficulty the map possibly could render to be difficult). One play through, I found only grenade launchers, bio rifles, and a mine layer within the first 10 minutes (leaving me helpless against the air drones). I would recommend placing at least one persistent weapon at a designated area. For example, at least one hit scan weapon and one close quarters weapon at designated areas. You can place these at some of the unpopular areas. For example, players don't have much of a reason to go in the sub section in the current version.


Regarding issues of difficulty:
I would let the map play out a bit more. There's always a learning curve when it comes to new maps. I wouldn't change the ticket values at this time. Give the players a few days/weeks to familiarize themselves with it.

Navigation is another issue for new players. New players do not know their way to the objective. Possibly add emitters that can render through walls? Or add unbeatable optional objective over the flags to let the AS hud take care of this?

Regarding issues to experience:
The reason why players are not receiving end game experience is because everyone's score is at 0 when the game ends (0-score players don't receive end game exp). This is my fault when I changed it to obj-based experience. I forgot to place ExperienceTriggers for mid-game progression. I'll take care of this if you want me to, Apo.

Apo, do you currently have another version on your local machine? Do you want me to make my changes now and send it to you for your edits? Or do you want to submit your map first and then I'll fix the end game issues?

DW_Ant wrote: I think it's a bit cool to have a variation in the map. Having an unreliable method to obtain the ideal weapon makes this assault progression unpredictable. The biggest issue I have is that there is a chance where you can't find any good weapons (even on easy difficulty the map possibly could render to be difficult). One play through, I found only grenade launchers, bio rifles, and a mine layer within the first 10 minutes (leaving me helpless against the air drones). I would recommend placing at least one persistent weapon at a designated area. For example, at least one hit scan weapon and one close quarters weapon at designated areas. You can place these at some of the unpopular areas. For example, players don't have much of a reason to go in the sub section in the current version.

Regarding WeaponSpawns: add Random Deemer Spawn, not so frequent because Ant will be upset.

Regarding GameType: It's not assault, so its totally up to mapper to specify game-rules.

Regarding map layout + learning curve: doesn't feel like playing the map more and more will provide the players with better kill skills or startegy to beat map. (unless incoming waves of monsters spawn at specific area and you can sent all players there to trap/ambush monsters)

Regarding exploring: only easy mode allows it due to low Monster difficulty and plenty of time/tickets...yet again, many areas of map are not used by players, they seem to be useless in respect to the objectives, and this is not cool since you have a huge map, yet the type of the objectives restrict you to stick to specific areas of map and only these.

You should/could add events of some type.
e.g. add every 2-4 minutes a random spawn, e.g. spawn a bonus wave: vagary + minions(spiders) and post a Message,CriticalEvent type providing location + tickets award, where if players kill the miniboss(vagary) will grant them additional tickets. since your map is themed (dragons) you could make all these special minibosses be dragons, and spawn them in all the map areas that are not used by objectives, so players can travel in these areas too, and make use of those map sections.

You could add an adiitional game mode.
the current game mode is more like survival mode....survive for 15 mins or 30 mins, making sure tickets dont run out.
you could create (requires a lot of work, i know) a free-play mode, playing for the full time no mater what, and at the end granting WIN or lose regarding the number of tickets (of course in that case you must revisit the ticketing system, providing also chances for the playersTeam to gain tickets through some "means".

DW_Ant wrote: Regarding issues of difficulty:
I would let the map play out a bit more. There's always a learning curve when it comes to new maps. I wouldn't change the ticket values at this time. Give the players a few days/weeks to familiarize themselves with it.

this should definitely be fixed/adjusted in a manner to reflect reasonable difficulty changes....
(I say this from my online experience of the map, medium can be considered impossible to cope with all the different variables, extra time, less tickets, monsters with double their difficulty)... and I'm reffering to Medium mode, not gonna even discuss on Hard mode what will it be like...

DW_Ant wrote: Navigation is another issue for new players. New players do not know their way to the objective. Possibly add emitters that can render through walls? Or add unbeatable optional objective over the flags to let the AS hud take care of this?

I suggested using some very visible emitter on top of each objective, much above it, in air , distinguishing from skybox/background, but then again, after the 4th or 5th time I played map, I know the exact location of each, and how to get there the easy way... so dont even bother Apo with that... 3 locations there are, of which the 2 are neighbooring, separated by 700-800 unreal units...

DW_Ant wrote: Regarding issues to experience:
The reason why players are not receiving end game experience is because everyone's score is at 0 when the game ends (0-score players don't receive end game exp). This is my fault when I changed it to obj-based experience. I forgot to place ExperienceTriggers for mid-game progression. I'll take care of this if you want me to, Apo.

I got positive value of XP (heal XP) , yet no win xp.....
that's why I asked 2-3 posts ago whats the LevelLimiter here...
also you MUST fix the the script(or the check) that checks on end game, either when timer hits zero or when tickets het zero, because it although can trigger the AS_RoundLoseGame, it still gives the XP reward message...seems that there are 2 different triggers. didn't check map in editor yet, but it would be weird to awarding winXP to players when they actually lose game

DW_Apok@lypse wrote:
3. If you jump out of the plane you fall into a low gravity zone, which prevent you from losing your life/ticket (i would prefer parachute, but not available in this game).

There are parachutes around. For sure in AirPower mod, PWC redirect seems to have a mutator.

As for the weapons- how about more types of weps from server (U2, Ripper)? I think they would give some more firepower, also shotgun and Ripper would boost a chance for paladins to get something to roll medic.

DW_Apok@lypse wrote:
After you captured a flag one randomly dragon will spawn above the flak. It need a bit time for the scripted trigger to decide what dragon, he would like to spawn there .

It seems that sometimes it takes very long time- so far 3rd dragon on easy spawned near the end of map and on medium it took around that time to spawn 2.

DW_Ant wrote:

Christmas wrote:3. (minor) fall-damage from falling from start, I dont know if it is intended.

The fall damage is my fault. I've increased the terminal velocity on the physics volume to fix the jumppads.

Christmas wrote:6. ticket-counting counts in groups of 5 and subtracts 3 groups at the same time. dont understant why.....you could have (-15) tickets instead of 3*(-5) tickets triggering at the same time.

The ticket system is a bit different from the table displayed earlier in this thread.
To place an emphasis on capturing objectives, the players will automatically lose 5 tickets per lost objective per minute.
-1 ticket per player death.

Christmas wrote:7. (minor) ticket-counting continues to count even after you reached tickets below zero (game end).......until you vote next map.

Don't worry about this issue, Apo. I'll fix this.

Apok@lypse wrote:8. Random Weapons Spawner have the advantage that a flak weapon can spawn anywhere. I will check, how difficult it is to catch weapons in game.

I think it's a bit cool to have a variation in the map. Having an unreliable method to obtain the ideal weapon makes this assault progression unpredictable. The biggest issue I have is that there is a chance where you can't find any good weapons (even on easy difficulty the map possibly could render to be difficult). One play through, I found only grenade launchers, bio rifles, and a mine layer within the first 10 minutes (leaving me helpless against the air drones). I would recommend placing at least one persistent weapon at a designated area. For example, at least one hit scan weapon and one close quarters weapon at designated areas. You can place these at some of the unpopular areas. For example, players don't have much of a reason to go in the sub section in the current version.


Regarding issues of difficulty:
I would let the map play out a bit more. There's always a learning curve when it comes to new maps. I wouldn't change the ticket values at this time. Give the players a few days/weeks to familiarize themselves with it.

Navigation is another issue for new players. New players do not know their way to the objective. Possibly add emitters that can render through walls? Or add unbeatable optional objective over the flags to let the AS hud take care of this?

Regarding issues to experience:
The reason why players are not receiving end game experience is because everyone's score is at 0 when the game ends (0-score players don't receive end game exp). This is my fault when I changed it to obj-based experience. I forgot to place ExperienceTriggers for mid-game progression. I'll take care of this if you want me to, Apo.

Apo, do you currently have another version on your local machine? Do you want me to make my changes now and send it to you for your edits? Or do you want to submit your map first and then I'll fix the end game issues?

Sure, Ant. Please do all the changes and send me a copy :thumbright: .