Death Warrant Forums

Socket 939 Club

In early 2001 I bought an HP Pentium III 533 Mhz rig new off of the uBid.com auction and used it to play UT99. Then in the Fall of 2005 I began making plans to build my own rig. It was a time when AMDs chips beat Intel's for gaming and when Socket 939 was king. The dual core chips were just starting to trickle out onto the market and cost at least $300. On tech forums people said that if you gamed you'd only need a single core. Enthusiasts were then wild about Socket 939 Opterons because they were excellent overclockers and there was even a (laugh) scare about how AMD was going to create an Opteron shortage for enthusiasts. The new 7800 GT video cards were going for $350 and the x800xts were holding their price at about $250.

Those halcyon days may be long gone and even though I might feel like a moron, in retrospect, for not having held out until the middle of 2006 to buy an AM-2 motherboard, it's time for us to start thinking about what to do with our Socket 939 rigs.

Depends on what you want to do.

If you purchased a PCIEx16 motherboard you are not in too bad of shape.

NewEgg is still selling socket 939 chips.

You can get a X2 4200+ for $79.
X2 3800+ for $64.
Opty 180 for $170.
Opty 185 for $235.

However, they are a dieing breed. I would make a decision relatively soon.

If you have an AGP motherboard, then I would say you are looking at upgrading the whole thing.

I agree with Zeus I believe I can get one more chip upgrade to handle the dx10 graphics card update I want without bottle necking the system but even so the update will only be good for another year maybe two. So I have a decission to make as well.

system Specs: Motherboard- Asus A8N SLI Deluxe
CPU- AMD 939 4200 dual core x2 not overcloacked
(to scared to mess things up)
Zalman 7800 blue LED cooler
Memeory- OCZ Platimum High Performance 2 gig
Dual channel kit
GPU- Dual 7600 GT DDR3 Graphics cards in SLI
Hard Drives- Dual 80 gig Seagates in raid 1
320 gig Weastern digital

My current rig:

CPU: Opteron 148 (2.2 Ghz standard, currently overclocked to 2.53 Ghz, can go higher.)

RAM: 2 x 512 Corsair Valueselect RAM. I also have two other sticks, but as I've mentioned elsewhere, UT 2004 doesn't seem to like the four of them together.

VIDEO: ATI Radeon x800xt. It's actually a Connect3D x800 GTO with 256 MB of DDR3, but I unlocked it to 16 pipes and it overclocks to x800xt speeds. (Proved to be a bargain purchase for the then price of $139.)

MOBO: Epox -9NPA+ Ultra nForce4 motherboard (not SLI).

PSU: Fortron 550W for SLI.


Current Plans:

For UT3 I'm guessing that I'll need a dual core CPU, 2 GB of RAM (either with all four of my sticks or new 2 x 1 GB), and a new video card.

I'd prefer NOT to buy a new mobo and upgrade to a new socket, essentially building a new computer, simply because I don't want to deal with any WindowsXP and Office 2003 anti-pirating installation BS issues and I'd prefer not to have to format a hard drive and essentially start over from scratch, but it's an option if it makes economic sense. The biggest issue for me is having a hassle with WinXP and Office 2003 installs. I don't know how often MicroSquish checks in on my hardware though it checks for updates to those two programs at least once a month if not more often. (This might be a good subject for the Anandtech.com forums.)

CPUs

Sadly, the dual core Athlons with the highest stock speeds are long gone and can now only be found on eBay for extravagant and irrational prices. This leaves us with:

Athlon x2 3800 (2.0) (about $60-65 shipped)
Athlon x2 4200 (2.2) (about $77-90 shipped)
Opteron 165 (1.8) ($95 shipped)
Opteron 170 (2.0) ($116 shipped)
Opteron 175 (2.2) ($140 shipped)
Opteron 180 (2.4) ($170 shipped)
Opteron 185 (2.6) ($235 shipped)

As much as I'd love to have another Opteron, I think I'd want to have one with at least a 10x multiplier since I'm not sure how much my motherboard can take, though it would be nice to get the 11x multiplier for $24 more. (Most prices are from Newegg, btw.) They all tend to reach similar top-end overclocking speeds, so it's really only about the multiplier.

However, I don't want to invest any more money in my Socket 939 system than I need to and we know that that Athlon 4200 is stable at 2.2 Ghz for $77 shipped. You'd need a mobo speed of 244 to take the Opteron 165 to that speed and the 4200 can be overclocked some, too. I do wonder whether it might make more sense to just get the 3800 (10x) in the hopes of overclocking it to the the speed you would get with the 4200, but I guess I'd prefer the 11x multiplier.

As always, I recommend against buying any hardware until just before it's needed since prices could always keep decreasing and Fatwallet.com-type hot deals can always come along, so I'll be waiting until at least mid-October while keeping an eye out for hot deals.

RAM

As some of you know, I already have 2 GB of RAM but for some reason UT 2004 just doesn't like my RAM sticks (more about this in another thread). I currently have both sticks in my second computer (at only 1 GB) and haven't had any problems with it and I had all four installed for at least six months and hadn't had any problems. Consequently, I think it's a weird UT 2004 problem or some sort of a settings problem.

Hopefully I'll be able to go 4 x 512 for UT3. If not then I'll probably have to spend $90-110 for 2 x 1 GB and hope to eBay or Craig's List the excess three 512 sticks and the Opteron 148 that I'll have. (I have one stick that came out of my second store-bought computer.)

If 2 x 1 GB doesn't work and if 4 x 512 doesn't work then I guess I'll just be screwed and PO'd and stuck with 1 GB until the next full upgrade.

Video Card

I feel the least amount of malevolence over upgrading the video card because it isn't really part of the core system and you can always take your video card with you to Socket AM-2 or an Intel platform.

I'm happy playing at 1024 x 768 and I just want a minimum of 40 FPS but I'm afraid that UT3 won't do so well on my x800xt. For now the choices seem to be:

x1950 Pro -- about $140 shipped.

x1950xt -- currently $174 shipped but very few choices.

8800 GTS 320 mb -- lowest price I've seen is $250 AR (after rebate).

The 1950 Pro should be quite sufficient but the 1950xt is probably the best bang for the buck for UT3. My rule about waiting to buy until you're ready to use the new piece of hardware applies doubly with video cards, so I'm going to wait until mid-October while keeping an eye out for hot deals. I figure that the AR prices on the 8800 GTS should continue to drop.

BTW, Tom's Hardware has an excellent video card comparison chart that lets you select two cards for performance comparison across a number of benchmark tests:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html

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Ideally I'll be able to get one of those 939 dual core chips for a lower price, probably the 4200, my 4 x 512 RAM will work for UT3, and I'll pickup a red hot deal on a video card.

Last night on voice someone mentioned eBay or Fleabay as Fatwalleters are fond of calling it. My problem with eBay is that it's filled with idiots who don't price shop at online retailers and they end up bidding gobs of money for used or returned equipment in unknown condition. I've also seen people buy allegedly "new" products at higher-than Newegg prices. I really can't understand it, for the life of me. How can you bring yourself to spend 10% less than the cost of new for a used item in unknown condition from an unknown buyer that might get lost or broken in the mail ?!?!?

My eBay strategy has been to try to find items that are within a short drive of my location so that I can (with an agreement from the seller) do a local in person pickup, avoiding shipping costs and reducing the risk of fraud or loss or damage in the mail. Number of computer items I've purchased that way so far--zero. The idiots always bid the prices up higher than what I'm willing to gamble. I sometimes wonder if I could make money by purchasing tech items at Fatwallet prices and then just eBaying them. I know that lots of folks do it.

ACY wrote:I agree with Zeus I believe I can get one more chip upgrade to handle the dx10 graphics card update I want without bottle necking the system but even so the update will only be good for another year maybe two. So I have a decission to make as well.

You know, Acy...if you don't want that Socket 939 Athlon X2 4200...I might be willing to buy it.

You really should consider overclocking that chip. All of these processors are essentially the same except they have different multipliers for price segmentation and they tend to get their max overclock at the same speeds, based on what I've read. The chip that's 2.6 Ghz standard and the chip that's 2.2 Ghz standard probably max out at the same speed (say, 2.7 Ghz). However, it is possible that AMD binned them aggressively, in which case you might get one that doesn't overclock really well. I'm going to start a thread at Anandtech.com asking for people's 4200 overclocks. It's very easy to do with a modern (non-store bought PC) BIOS.

The formula for the speed of a chip is mobo HTT BUS speed x multiplier, so an 11x gives you 11 x 200 Mhz = 2.2 Ghz. You overclock by increasing the BUS speed. I'm currently at 11 x 230 = 2.53 Ghz. However, there are other considerations and it's a little more complicated; you'd probably also want to set up a RAM speed divider. Here is a good guide and a forum thread about overclocking utilities:

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=gethowto&howtoID=58

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... erthread=y

Ok as I've mentioned before, you are overclocking your 4 sticks too high and UT2004 is the only thing that doesn't like it. Stock speed with 3 sticks is 400mhz. but with 4 it is 333mhz. which lowers your max speed. It's all over the internet and I own the hardware. UT has been notorious for being finicky with overclocking and the latest Bioshock demo leads me to think they still have issues because the AMD patch comes with. It is also important to not believe everything you read including the internet.

As for upgrades, I'm not sure I would spend another dime on a 939 processor. I recently bought an AM2 5600+ X2 with motherboard for $149. 2 gigs of DDR2 memory can be had for under $80 if you pay attention. Intel side is a little different because the motherboards are little pricey. We could argue all day on video cards but speaking from experience if what you have works well then dont worry about it. Again don't believe everything you read even from so-called trusted websites. You do know that Toms has been bought and sold atleast twice?

Hey Killa, thank you very much for that info. It makes a little more sense to me seeing it in writing as I don't always pick up information very well when it's presented orally.

Regarding my RAM issue, I have to use a memory divider and I'm pretty sure that with the four sticks I had it set to under 400, but I can't say it was less than 333 (doubtful).

I had no idea that this was an issue with UT. Maybe I'll install the other two sticks sometime and try again, making sure that the speed is low.

Do you have any links to articles about this issue or discussion forum threads? I posted about my RAM problem on a number of forums, including the Epic forums, and this is the first I've heard of a RAM speed issue with UT 2004.

I'm also going to have to go check up on the prices of AM-2 mobos and CPUs as well as Core 2 Duos; perhaps that would be the way to go. However, I'm just a little leery about how MicroSquish would feel when I go to install WinXP and Office 2003 on a new mobo-CPU-RAM. I know that the general rule is "6 months" but don't they check up on people's computers more often now every time it checks for software updates?

I think that if you are looking between AMD/AM2 vs. C2D you are probably paying close to the same price for stock speeds. Overclocking, however, I don't think that AMD is able to keep up with Intel.

With the silence that is coming out of AMD, plus the resignation of one of their top guys, I have the feelling tha Barcelona is not going to live up to the early hype they had put out.

Either way, you are going to have to get DDR2 Ram with either AM2 or C2D/775.

The 2140 is the low end C2D. Apparently about 50% of them will overclock to 3.0+GHz.

For the ultimate answer to this question.

You send the turkey to me.

O and i prefer white meat.

I just want to reiterate that clock speed is not always an indicator performance or how well it will run programs. AMD is notorious for slower clocks always has been, still does not mean not capable, especiall if you are not going to OC.